Weird I just admitted I lived in a mouse infested apt in the ghetto in my past, and supposedly I am "priviledged" LOL Priviledged, well, perhaps in some ways, given I had access to a college education and there's running water and a little food in the fridge but one isn't living the high economic life at 500lbs and disabled, you won't see me drive by in a limo sneering at you anytime soon. I promise.
My religious views I suppose are self evident. What does she consider ridiculous? Perhaps what I exposed about MSG? Well I know not all my views are mainstream. She is right I did get banned over and over. The summation is interesting "because she talks about the realities of her experiences at 500lbs and some health problems that are related to being fat."
Yes, that is what this blog is about. Except for one lady who blogs and is at 400lbs, I have never seen any other blog like this. Someone should be out there sharing the reality. Why not me? If anyone near my size sees this blog by the way, I would be interested in some guest posters, who are in my size range.
Then the discussion gets more interesting, the other poster seems to understand where I am coming from to a degree.
"I actually haven’t come across her viewpoint before, and I’m glad that I did. Fat acceptance certainly hinges on the all-inclusive acceptance of all fats at all weights, whether that’s 250lbs or 500lbs. And we don’t want to draw a line to say okay, up till here fat is acceptable because that’s the line we are already fighting against. It’s just that society in general puts that line at a much lower weight. We don’t want to say that 500lbs isn’t acceptable, because we want fatties of any weight to be able to love themselves and accept themselves; but, perhaps, also because the acceptance of fat people of all sizes depends on a few beliefs we want to be the unshakable core of FA. Most importantly, the belief that fat is not inherently unhealthy and that you can’t tell if someone is unhealthy by looking at them. We don’t want ourselves to be judged that way, and we don’t want to judge others that way. It’s one of the core beliefs of FA."There's is the problem. Seperate people from the weight and the moral judgements put on high. Even if one is fat and sick from it, doesn't mean we have to turn around to the extreme of the other side and try to pass off 500lbs + as a happy condition anyone would want to be in. Where have I said I am against the acceptance of people? I think even the fattest person should be treated with dignity and respect. With the greatest weights, the health effects are undeniable once a certain bar is passed. I am realistic to know there are a few 500lbers who avoid even disability, most who are young, but health problems are a given at the long term at this weight and higher.
"And what this 500lbs woman seems to be saying is when you look at someone who’s 500lbs you CAN tell they are unhealthy and that’s something we don’t want to hear. Because we don’t want to draw the line for fat acceptance."Hey I know this is true, Fat acceptance considers someone like me a danger, a negative view to all the fat promotion. As I have written about the two sided coin, it is possible to realize adipose tissue is not the zenith of one's being, going along with my "The Body is Not Everything" post. If a movement is centered around people having to suspend reality, a person at 500lbs not facing health problems, then that is a problem and bound to enforce it's fringe status pernamently.
."You break down the “fat != unhealthy” paradigm, fat acceptance seems to start falling apart at the seams. You start talking about how you want to lose weight because being so heavy makes you unhappy, you actually run into a wall of FA people telling you that no, dieting is bad, and it doesn’t work, and you should accept your fat. Most FA blogs outright ban comments about dieting and weight loss, so where is your place in FA if you’re 500lbs, unhappy, unhealthy, disabled because of your weight, and all the fat activist tell you you shouldn’t try to set weight loss as a goal?"Yes, that is a problem, it does start to fall apart at the seams. Where have I said I love dieting on this blog? As I have written, I would love people to step outside the either-or paradigm...Diet industry or Fat promotion. Both are non-choice, we know diets do not work. I have failed obviously in my weight loss efforts except in managing only a moderation of my problems--getting down from the 700s originally and very slow health related and other weight losses adding up to the 75lbs that has come off over the last 5 years. This blog is full of criticism for the diet industrial complex. But on that side, why should I accept fat promotion as my only other option? How about pushing for things that work? Why can't fat people just tell the truth about their experiences instead of sticking to some odd ideological code, where banning, censorship and more from the world of fatdom is the response?
Yes that is true, I saw many in FA who did lose weight. Some had to for health reasons.
"This stuff just isn’t simple. I have friends who simultaneously support FA but still want and/or try to lose weight, and sometimes that’s very frustrating (to hear about their weight loss and calories etc) but I do support them in autonomous choices for their body. If anything, I think their knowledge and support of FA will at least help them avoid pitfalls of weight loss such as falling back into patterns of body hatred. I hope so, anyway."
"What this woman is saying conflicts with some of the pillars of fat acceptance, notably fat is not an indicator of health and weight loss is always bad. We don’t like that. Our beliefs, our acceptance, is hard-fought, and we constantly have to defend these pillars."It's a pillar, that should be questioned.
Why the insistence on such extreme pillars?
The fat is not an indicator of health thing, well I never could get on board for that, and remember I accept that there are robust mid-sized people but things are different when fat crosses a certain line or when weight gain is even the outcome of serious endocrine disease.
When someone who we think is ‘on our side’ turns around and says 500lbs is in no way healthy or acceptable and weight loss is a viable option for me it makes us uncomfortable.Why should this be? If this poster sees this response, I hope she can answer some of my questions. Why not just face the uncomfortableness but stay honest? Who would want to be 500lbs? Think about that one, just even the sheer mobility problems for most. Why not speak truth, while still holding care, concern and respect for the fat?
"We don’t want to draw the line. We don’t want to stop fat acceptance above a certain weight. We don’t want to say that at some point fat is an indicator of health because doing so implicates all of us, it casts seeds of doubt where we already have to struggle for acceptance, it makes it even harder for us to stand up for ourselves."
I have noticed this. As I have written, SOME smaller sized people in size acceptance really do see those who get into the outer fringes of fatdom as a danger. Perhaps there is a thought, 'that could be me one day". Don't forget I lived in the world of the mid-sized til around age 27. Now what happened to me isn't going to happen to everyone, there will be people who stay midsized and with their weights stable. But this stubborness about rejecting the experiences of the severely overweight so people do not feel uncomfortable, is a bad idea. It disenfranchises everyone who does cross that line and knows the ideology is NOT standing up.
"So we exclude this woman. Because she weighs 500lbs, and we don’t want to hear that that is in every way unhealthy and that weight loss *is* a solution to her. Because hearing and acknowledging that unsettles our core beliefs."
I am very glad this poster admits my exclusion. For her to be that honest, is worthy of respect. So I want to Thank her and hope she sees this. I know my experience unsettles people, but one thing, there are more people entering where I am at, I am seeing more and more people near my size then ever before. Some are not quite there, up in the 400s, but they are definitely over 400lbs. I went thrift shopping today and saw at least 5 individuals who passed the 425lb mark. This may be something fat acceptance may have to face and deal with. Today I may be a rarity but what about tommorow?
What about a space that accomodates fat people and has respect for them, where no love for fat [an inanimate object] is demanded?
"What to do? I don’t know. We keep talking about being inclusive, but we generally don’t want to be a space that accommodates people who hate their fat and want to lose weight. Maybe fat acceptance isn’t the place for her. But it doesn’t seem right to me".
She is right that fat acceptance isn't the place for me. I have been banned and ostracized to the point I know, I am a definite outsider, even if I share in questioning and cricizing the diet industry and standing up against fat discrimination and hatred. I am very thankful that she admits that something doesn't seem right to her about it all.
Yeah there is something wrong about it all.