Saturday, February 4, 2017

Do Narcissists Have a Certain Writing Style?


                             a snippet of one of my mother's emails.

As I write this, I know people have analyzed my own writing. I am not perfect and sometimes my brain fog and medical problems are bad for my writing. I even can get writer's block, believe it or not and had some last week. There's things I want to write about where it sometimes feels like my brain can't keep up with the rest of me. It can get frustrating.

 Once when I was arguing with some feminists on Ms. Magazine boards years ago, I got outed as an Aspie, and was told it was because it shows in my writing. I believe narcissism can show in writing too. Maybe we can learn to discern better whose a narc and whose not?

Maybe I'm a bit fussy but I am put off by blog and article writing by people who seem shallow and always take that "isn't it ironic" stance. Maybe this is neurotypical writing that Aspie me does not get. Life is always one "game" to them and object "coolness" is to be shown at every second and everything from car accidents to breast cancer are to be taken with a dose of extreme humor and "Gee Shucks" attitudes. Many of us have been tortured with the "Mommy blogger" brigade who write about "little Madison and Grayson" ripping up their living rooms and pouring a can of paint in the garage but there's tons of narcissists out there, who are also declaring themselves experts on everything and have flippant attitudes about everything.

Sometimes you see an awful ACON article that makes you want to rip your hair out.

Being an Adult Child of a Narcissist

Some sample quotes from the above:

"Sure, it’s lonely to keep a barrier up at all times, but we do what we have to do. I’ve proven time and time again that I can reject intimacy with ease. Hell, the fact that I’ve been married three times is a testament to that!" 

"You
desperately want to be clever or have the best or the worst of something. Anything to make sure you are in the spot light." [um not really]

"I’ve been reading quite a bit about being the adult child of a narcissist and what I’ve read boils down to this: we’re kind of screwed and probably need a lot of therapy." [uh gee thanks I think]

After I read this article, I felt like she was trying to tell me ACONs were horrible people. The article depressed me. I felt gaslighted and kind of verbally stabbed in the back, "I'm an ACON and I suck!"

I complained about this article to a friend, and we went to go look at the author's blog. It had the whole "snarky" David Sedaris style writing to it.  She wrote about 52 thoughts that bothered her one night, her life seems pretty mundane and easy, she is not wondering things like me, "Will I live through another year?" "Am I going to be completely deaf?" "We better put 10 more dollars in the bank account, so they don't close it when I write the latest check". I find her life kind of easy and "shallow". Her nightly worries concerned her personal smells, looks and if some guy with a really weird name would like her banana bread.

I once found the blog of this woman, I know to be a narcissist.  Well she's not officially diagnosed but she's like my mother in many ways. She is the widow of one of my husband's best friends who died tragically young. She once wrote me a note, after I visited her apartment with my husband during one of my ill years in Chicago to have dinner with his friend, "I do not seek friendship where it is not wanted". She had an autistic son who was born after my husband's friend died and is someone that has strengthened my personal theories about refrigerator mothers.

I noticed as I read her blog a few times, that it had the same "snarky" tone and isn't life ironic themes? It had no deep thoughts. I felt creeped out reading it. I can't link there, because this is the last person I want coming and reading here but I'll quote her. I am going to change a few words so no one can track back to her blog, and tell her I am writing about her.

  Her writing talent is there, she uses descriptive language and a lot of adjectives but there's no soul there. She seems to brag a lot about being a "geek" filled with obscure cultural references and how intelligent she is. Oh maybe I brag on here too much too showing off my art work, and weird studies on how scientists use MSG to fatten up the rats, but the whole blog rubbed me wrong to the point that sometimes I go take later peeks in like watching a train-wreck.

She describes herself thusly

" "About ***********
I am all things to all people. As long as people are looking for a mom with different interests and a reclusive tendency to look through the window of life and wish (or imagine) something just a little bit different. I am like the Tardis on Doctor Who. I am much larger on the inside."

and in one blog article she decided to write about Squirrels battling it out around her bird feeder. [I have changed some words paraphrasing in all quotes to avoid track-backs]

"The squirrels watch for a few moments as the human wheels more and more bags filled with yummy tastiness to the smaller not-a-tree house to feed it to the albino beast living there.* They watch as she attempts a game of Tetris—trying feverishly to shove all of the stuff into a place too small to fit it."

The rest of the blog, she writes about having her friends in an article send pictures of what they bought at the grocery store and she wrote a poem to green peppers. In other articles she does articles on getting her toe nails painted, going out to dinner with a few friends and how she doesn't care ever to protest anything or concern herself with anything political because it doesn't interest her. She also posts about making Christmas cookies and puts up pictures of holiday lights, and turns spilling some sushi in her car into a giant opus.

[quote provided with some changed words and paraphrases but with the meaning intact]

"My sushi flies, joyful little blobs, dispersing all over the seat.  Fortunately the soy sauce only threatens to spill onto my purse where it has fallen to the floor. I’m madly scooping the runaway snack food while I at the same managing to avoid the collision and get into a lane. I do not flick off the other driver, but only because I don’t have a free hand. I do cuss them out. My son is learning tons of important life lessons, no doubt; I’m just not sure what they are.

I ask myself writing this who am I to talk, I just wrote about being too deaf to hear people and have complained about the crick in my neck and food pantries but do you see a trend here I am driving at? Everything seems to be "ironic" and a "joke", and "nothing is serious". Even with the woman writing about ACONs, I read that article thinking, "Not only are ACONS bad, we are a joke too."  They never go deep and one can notice, it's like life is just one big joke!

That is just one sign in writing that I consider a possible marker for narcissism. Another is constant bragging. I think of the letters I got from that "godmother" who wrote about her trips to Peru and wrote so many details bragging of all her successful children it read like resumes. My mother bragged at least 20 times of my one nephew the Eagle Scout. However that aside, the "above it all" crowd give me the worse creeps.


How to Tell a Narcissist by Their Writing



30 comments:

  1. Narcs have different writing styles with the intent of impressing people of their intellectual prowess and skills to persuade and influence others. They use ambiguous statements, cliches, and platitudes many times, and sometimes plagiarized other people's ideas and claimed it as their own. In reality, some of them are terrible writers who irritate their readers. Why do readers hate reading blogs, books, or articles written by narcs? There are several reasons I noticed based on my discussion with my professors, admissions officers, and others I dealt with in real life and online.

    1. We get irritated when some applicants to graduate school applicants stretched the truth to inflate their accomplishment. For example, an admission officer I consulted with was annoyed when I mentioned a website that would publish my thesis as my published written material. She warned me not to say my written materials as published until I have it published in a research journal or when it is being issued as a book. Although my research adviser told me that my thesis would be published on a website run by a prominent university, it is still not considered published.

    For example, an admission officer read my statement of purpose draft and said it looked good except for a few bad sentences she saw. I also noticed that her bullshit meter was very high based on many applications she read for the past 10 to 20 years. She said something like, "Why aren't you mentioning this at the beginning?" I revised my placement of sentences.

    I remember several professors and employees at another prominent university said the same thing when they saw my drafts. Then they told me later that they dealt with jerks and narcissistic undergraduate students they had in their classes. In admission advising sessions, several admissions office mentioned they wanted to screen out abusive people or not very nice people, so they read statement-of-purpose and writing samples to get a sense of applicants they might accept to their programs. (continued)

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    1. I agree narcs want to impress by what they know. You will send endless cultural references and other braggings. Some in academia go to town with the 50 dollar words.

      Its all about appearing a certain way. There's no realness. One can read paragraphs upon paragraphs and nothing is really said. They actually can be quite verbose, their writing stretches out long. I suppose in school they never worried about meeting the 2,000 word essay requirements. They are usually quite vague and they reveal nothing in their words.

      I think they irritate readers too. I read the blog by the deceased friend's wife and felt offended and upset. I couldn't even explain it. She just seemed to "skim" through life not really caring about anything but turning the nits into giant things.

      I am glad your college advisors warned you about narcissists and also gave you good advice on your academic writings. It does make me feel a lot better that some are actively seeking to screen out abusive personalities and those who would create havoc.

      Delete
  2. 2. Narc writers' written materials put most of us to sleep. Unless we are very close to them as their friends or relatives, narcs' small stories of their lives will not mean much to us. We do not feel connected to a person who wants to talk about squirrels, exotic foods they eat, their children's achievements, or their works with special needs or marginalized people. Narcs' helping positions or works with marginalized groups actually could upset us if they mistreated us. Some narcs play intellectual games on their readers by using symbols or ambiguous languages to make readers feel they are less intelligent than the narc writers.

    3. Narcs use platitudes and cliches' a lot in their written materials. Because their mentality is different from ours, their approaches to their lives, their sufferings, and God are completely different. Most narcs are financially secured by hurting many others to get there. They do not have God or Jesus Christ in their lives. Many narcs prefer to read books or watch movies about successes rather than about family, God, and being loving to others.

    4. A majority narcs plagiarized materials. In one post-baccalaureate studies program, I learned that a majority of high school and college students cheated or plagiarized written material they could find online or in printed materials offlines. Because of the climate that is favoring narcissistics parents and students these days, many students believe they could get away with cheating or plagiarizing others' works. Plagiarizing is worse in elite universities, particularly if individual students have narc helicopter parents who would write papers or admissions essays for them.

    Before I received a master's degree from an elite university last year, professors and thesis advisers told many students and me that we have to write clearly and concisely to succeed in our research papers and thesis. A professor of the intensive writing course recommended the class to read George Orwell's "The Politics and the English Language," where we could learn about bad writers, including prominent professors in the 19th and 20th centuries, who used ambiguous languages to impress others with their intellectual abilities.

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    1. Yes Narc writing will put one to sleep. I noticed how in my mother's emails and few writings there was little depth. She would brag about visiting all these people while making excuses to blow me off even as she drove within one mile of my house. I've posted some snippets of those emails here. I have other emails on one account back to 2006 where I am being given "We are too busy" excuses from Mini-Me and Queen Spider.

      Narcs do not share anything of depth that is why they focus on its. If I wrote like the people I commented on, I would write about buying some organic pasta yesterday, and finding some masking tape at the Dollar Store, perhaps I would write a poem to the gyro I had at lunch, I would not write about "feelings" which are anathema to narcs or societal issues or about anything pertinent to the big picture.

      I don't feel connected either. Narcs focus on narc supplies and bragging rights. How many times did I hear about Steven the "Eagle Scout" I am sure she know brags about his making the dean's list at college. These things got old. Of course for scapegoats any achievements are diminished. I had the memory some years ago of inviting my mother to two of my DIY art show receptions--I had two and of course she was a no show which was just as well.

      Marginalized or disabled people are exploited. The woman I posted about above has an autistic son, there seems to be a lot of narcissists with autistic children, but you all know my theory on that. Often they are used as narc supply. The "Mommy bloggers" with Aspie or autistic children can be an own special nightmare. Some do Mea Culpas and express constant horror that their child is so "different". While some reject their autistic children some play martyrs and "ever-suffering" parents.

      I agree about the intellectual games. I don't know what Tetris is, I have some vague memory of a video game from the 1980s so even her comments about that are confusing. It is meant to confuse.

      Many of the narcs do stick to cliches. I think even about Queen Spider's Facebook, she bragged of her grandchildren so much, almost every minute--my sister's children mostly who she favored. They will post memes and other things that are very pedestrian and never say anything that expresses a "real opinion" or true "emotional state". I agree their approaches to life are very different. They live in the world of THINGS and SHOWING OFF not in the world of ideas.

      Most narcs are financially secure. They lied, cheated and stole their way to the top. You will notice the old ones instead of running out of money like most who grow elderly seem to be on top of a growing pile of cash. Some may play false pious games but yes they do not have God or Jesus in their life or He is used for their "keeping a front".

      Yes narcs cheat. They will plagarize their way through college, or find other ways to "beat" the system via lies and subterfuge. They don't get caught it seems very often, they use charm and other techniques never to be caught.

      Many do cheat on their school work. Queen Spider allowed Mini-Me to borrow my old school reports and freshman college art projects to turn in at her community college. I remember she used some of my reports and art projects stored at the house, even without my knowledge and I discovered this in college. One art project had my grade erased on it and a new one written on. I was told to give her reports including a World War 2 report she turned in during high school. She would also do her home work for her. I never got such "help".

      I am glad you had professors who wanted you to write clearly and conscisely, one huge problem in academia for centuries? was people writing NOT to be understood but to "show off". I am glad this is changing. In the information age, I think baffling people with BS is a lot harder and not tolerated.

      Delete
  3. Hi Peeps,
    Your mother's words and their meanings are killing me! She is such an ***!!! To EVEN MENTION the network shows she appeared in "personally," and then indicating that they are now "off her roster" and "unimportant" and somehow "indeed cumbersome" to the more important "Family" matters is a real narc slap in the face!
    Honestly, Peeps, (God bless you) from a woman not raised to respect or understand religion.
    Sincerely Michelle

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  4. Hi Peeps, continued ...
    Yes "narcissists" (queen spider) do have a "certain writing style" In the case of your mother she "could always go on and on" about a subject, but she never does! I always take it she either "doesn't care," or hasn't "taken anytime to think on the subject" = pretty much the same! Poor for the calibur of a "civil servent" such as you suggest.

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    1. I may show a letter from the narcissistic godmother taking out pertinent names. This one will blow everyone's minds here. This is a first cousin of Queen Spider and I don't think their personality styles are very removed. This one pushed her children to success instead of out and out sabotage, but I'll do it. I plan to post two more writing articles. Yes she always used to write that, "I could always go on and on", but that closed mouth and shut up mind, isn't going to expose anything. Secrets to the max! She was so boring. Even that letter was boring tell us what to talk about. Notice how she wrote Let's talk about the FAMILY, gag! She doesn't care and doesn't think. The woman lacks all introspection. I don't know how she made it through work. She didn't seem to have to do much, no work was ever bought home in 26 years and she never had to stay afterhours. She pushed some paper, and went to meetings and had cakes and parties with the "girls".

      Delete
  5. Hi Peeps,
    Your mother's words and their meanings are killing me! She is such an ***!!! To EVEN MENTION the network shows she appeared in "personally," and then indicating that they are now "off her roster" and "unimportant" and somehow "indeed cumbersome" to the more important "Family" matters is a real narc slap in the face!
    Honestly, Peeps, (God bless you) from a woman not raised to respect or understand religion.
    Sincerely Michelle

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    Replies
    1. Yeah I found that stuff crazy too, avoid the network shows, and news, because it makes us "act" so badly. Give me a break. She is a TV addict. Thanks Michelle.

      Delete
  6. Hi Peeps,
    I had quite a day yesturday, hence the bit of drama showing up here in my writing. I do want to clarify what I said about the lack of religeous influence in my life, as I know how important your faith is to you.
    I found myself extremely embarrassed once as a young adult when my mother and I entered the local church in the small town where I lived (she was visiting) and she genuflected as we entered. I just stood there aglow, not having any idea what to do, as she then went to a pew and kneeled down and bowed her head. I had never seen her do any of this, and I wondered how it was that she was so well versed on church educate and I was not, being that she had raised me.
    I doubt I asked her anything about it, but I did take note, and at my next opportunity, a couple of years later, it was one of the first questions I asked my grandmother on my visit to her. My grandmother was a fine woman who always brought all things good into our lives, and I wanted to know why she had not taken us to church? She told me she had always gone to church and had taken my mother there as well, until my grandfather died. (I was in my mother's womb at the time). My grandmother explained how he got leukemia and how she had taken care of him at home, and part of which was to change blood-ridden sheets several times a day. As she fought back her tears she said, "if there was a God in heaven he would not have allowed your grandfather to die that way." I understood my grandmother was a fiercely loyal person and could see how she could feel betrayed by this.
    As for my mother's reasons for not taking us to church (except on Easter Sunday, and then it seemed more about our clothes) I suspect as a MN her reasons were much more sinister.
    As for whether or not narcissists have a certain writing style, I honestly don't know. I think I'm better at reading sincerity, which is what I get with your blog. I do think it was very controlling of your mother to be setting up the conversations that should take place and to eben set the tone for light hearted. Something that would sound rediculous as you shared the latest happennjngs in YOUR life. Far be it I guess to talk about any world issues, of which you are quite versed and passionate about. continuing ...

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    1. Michelle it would be strange to be raised irreligious and then have a mother that went through religious rituals in front of you. Did she ever express what her real beliefs were or simply leave them unmentioned beyond this display? I was raised Catholic and was an atheist by age 10 so I guess that tells you how I felt about the narc religious displays I had to put up with for decades.

      http://fivehundredpoundpeeps.blogspot.in/2014/01/i-survived-catholic-school-and-my.html

      Queen Spider never misses a Mass but I learned fast that I could not talk about anything spiritual with the woman. She is an empty well. The Catholicism I believe is just a "front" not something actually "believed in", like going through the motions. In some ways you may have been spared, because church was a place of abuse for me and putting on the "family displays" in the cold impersonal Catholic churches.

      Mini-Me still continues with the pious displays, nothing "spiritual" about her at all, totally uninterested in God beyond scripted prayers. I noticed she sent out a lot of religious pictures, her and the family posing under this giant crucifix, her children receiving medals from the bishop, pictures next to the priest but this probably meant to impress Mommy most of all.
      Thats horrible what your grandmother and grandfather went through, it does sound like your grandmother as a result of these pressures left the church. I don't think this is why your mother left church. She probably just didn't care. She just put it in the don't deal with it category.

      continuing...

      Delete
    2. Thanks for saying you find my blog to be sincere.

      It was very controlling. She put out edicts and even wrote a list in that same email about what we were NOT allowed to talk about. It caused a huge fight. In fact that fight of 2012, was one of the steps for me going no contact.

      http://fivehundredpoundpeeps.blogspot.in/2016/09/the-email-that-my-brother-forwarded-to.html

      Yes the demands to be "light-hearted" were crazy.

      Here is the crazy email in it's entirety

      >
      >>Good Evening Everyone,
      >>
      >>We are so looking forward to seeing everyone this coming Sunday for the
      >Annual **** Family Christmas get-together. Uncle **** and I have been quite
      >busy with shopping, shopping, wrapping, wrapping, cleaning, cleaning, and
      >more shopping just to get ready for the big day. (We haven't started the
      >cooking yet.)
      >>
      >>As a result of some recent FACEBOOK statements, comments, claims, opinions,
      >discussions, thoughts and beliefs, etc., Uncle ***** and I have decided that
      >we need to let everyone know that several topics WILL NOT be up for
      >discussion during the Family Christmas get-together. Those topics are:
      >>
      >>P O L I T I C S
      >>
      >>R E L I G I O N
      >>
      >>B I L L S B E F O R E C O N G R E S S OR S E N A T E
      >>
      >>AND G A Y R I G H T S.
      >>
      >>We feel that since it has been quite
      >> sometime that some of us have seen each other maybe we could spend our
      >time talking about what has been happening in our lives, etc. Did you know
      >that Steven will become an Eagle Scout very soon. At 15, that's quite an
      >accomplishment and I can go on and on about Steven and all the other
      >grandchildren.
      >>
      >>Anyway, we know you will do your best to honor our request. We have to
      >admit, we watch our share of TV and news programs and sometimes we just have
      >to turn it off or walk away because of how it is making us feel and act.
      >One day of other more personal, light-hearted conversations might be just
      >what we all need. Let's catch up on each other's lives and concentrate more
      >on the FAMILY.
      >>
      >>As I said earlier, we are looking forward to seeing everyone. We are
      >planning on having dinner around 1:30 and you are welcome to come any time
      >before that. The earlier, the better. Drive carefully, or as
      >> they say in Maryland "Please Drive Gently" and we will see you on Sunday,
      >the 16th.
      >>
      >>Love to all,
      >>Aunt ***** and Uncle ******

      Delete

    3. My response:

      >I think the family needs less censorship in it's speech not more. All those
      >family visits where everyone sat around silently afraid to open their mouths
      >and now more silence is desired? Am I strange person to desire DEEP
      >DISCUSSIONS? I and my friends read books and even discuss them with each
      >other, and they cover all sorts of deep topics. Some we may even disagree
      >with, but we do not get all offended with each other. I have friends even
      >who are on the opposite side of me politically.
      >
      >
      >
      >As far as RELIGION: Being a Christian is part of who I am, so I cannot
      >"censor" that anymore then I could censor being fat or being an artist.
      >
      >
      >As for the politics, at least it is more interesting then "How is the
      >weather", "fine, thank you"
      >
      >
      >
      >As far as POLITICS: I have felt some of the Facebook conversations were
      >worthwhile and more of depth. Some of us got to know each other rather being
      >strangers. I understand not fighting each other or being disrespectful, but
      >trying to tell people what to talk about and not talk about? That seems kind
      >of strange to me.
      >
      >
      >
      >GAY RIGHTS: Weird, that one was barely even discussed. Discussed with one
      >relative in private message civilly

      >CONGRESS BILLS, none are up as far as I know...
      >
      >
      >
      >What denotes "light-hearted" enough conversation? Your house, your rules,
      >but it's a strange request.
      >
      >
      continuing...
      She got really mad and answered back:

      >You should have read your last statement a few times before you spouted off
      >to the whole family. You could have conveyed your feelings to me alone
      >also. I would have respected that. You were wrong in sending this email to
      >everyone and totally disrespectful to me no matter how shallow you think I
      >am.

      **********************

      I now suspect she knew about all the relatives who were homosexuals.

      See this:

      http://fivehundredpoundpeeps.blogspot.in/2016/10/a-relative-came-out-of-closet.html

      Both his late teen kids came out as gay too. [one-- is technically transgendered switching from female to male and adopting a male name and the other is a young male homosexual] They openly posted on coming out day. One belongs to gay rights groups and homosexual dating websites on Facebook. I have never heard of three homosexual people in the same family but maybe it happens. I'll leave that one up to the people more versed in that area.

      I believe now, she knew about my gay relatives [all three are in the same immediate family] and wanted everyone to shut up to keep the "secret" before they all came out a few years later.

      I never posted about homosexuality, I have more traditional views about it but I don't support the fundamentalists who hound people about it night and day. I had one of the gay relatives before he came out ask my personal beliefs about it in PM, which probably didn't go over well and he probably went to go talk to my mother about this. I did say all people should be treated with respect left to live in peace etc.

      She was angry at me a long time for posting Christian and gospel stuff on my Facebook. [I don't post about homosexuality on there, I have some gay friends too] so I think that created the "Don't talk about religion" rule. There were a few relatives fighting over Tea Party vs. liberal contests, back in 2012, so that may have instigated some of it.

      She is that much of a control freak. I notice now in the email how she plays martyr about "how much work" it all is. If it's that hard why do it?

      Delete
    4. Note in the above, when I talked to the gay cousin about my beliefs, I knew him as a "straight" married and divorced guy with children and did not know more, I knew he was more effeminate but not every man is uber-macho and left it at that.

      Delete
  7. Hi again Peeps,
    Continuing... The subject of my grandfather's death came up between my mother and I a couple of years back, after she reimitiated contact. I was looking at photos, and realized that the death of my grandfather was what probably caused my granmother's apparent absence in my life until age three, as the pictures suggested. Knowing my mother's MO, I put it together that she went after my grandmother for inheritance in the wake of his death. I mentioned she being pregnant with me when he died and she seethed back that I was wrong, that she was 16 and pregnant with my brother when he passed, and she should know, it was her dad! I told her to look through the photos I had sent her and get to the one of my brother at the age of three in my grandparents back yard. She said she had it. I said, isn't that your father pushing the lawn mower beside him? Yes, she had to admit it was, and guessed she must have been pregnant with me.
    All I was thinking was how could she not know as a memory to her own life of when her father passed away? I still didn't know about narcissism but it was a big red flag moment.
    Sincerely, Michelle

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  8. Michelle when we learn more it can change the perspective. My mother the secret keeper was playing games even with that email, probably goading the gay relatives she knew about? I had so many puzzle pieces come together on that lying wench. Things got weird for me because you remember, she called me a lesbian for years when in my case, I only have physical attraction to men and I was abused over it. When all the relatives came out and were cheered on by other relatives [well I could see posts of ones I did not block], it was strange watching this on Facebook. Narcs almost require everyone be mind-readers around them.

    I am sure you lost contact with your grandmother too over your mother battling it out over a would be inheritance. I was floored by all the secrets and lies, I was told even beyond my description of the events above.

    How strange that she lied about the timing of everything and said it was your brother. She probably didn't want to take responsiblity for keeping you away from your mother. I am glad you proved her wrong. We can't trust narc recollection of events, they lie about everything. Narcs aren't like normal people, they really don't care about someone dying. They don't have connections. They don't get sad. Sadly the dead just disappear to them. She was rewriting facts to look better, just so she could CYA at her destroying your relationship with your grandmother and keeping her away.

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  9. I do think narcissists have a weird writing style. I don't see it as flippant so much as detached and grasping, definitely trying too hard. In the right mood, I can find it really hilarious to read because you can see how badly they are failing at trying to be actual humans. But most of the time it's just disturbing because you can tell they're dead inside and just trying to pretend to be alive. My in-laws sound exactly like queen spider, in person as well as in writing. They're all about the form - no substance. I'm no good with the form, but I'm interested in substance as it sounds like you are. And I love how your honesty just made her blow a gasket.

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    1. Yes you are right many have the detached and grasping type too trying too hard. I guess here I dealt with the flippant types. Yes it is disturbing because writing shows the soul. Sorry you have in-laws who sound like Queen Spider run! Queen Spider's first cousin the god-mother would write me letters bragging, bragging, I am glad I am away from her. All form!

      Yes she blew a gasket, she probably didn't let the family see that response, but when my brother forwarded my email to everyone, they knew she was mad and a fight had gone down.

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    2. Hi Peep,
      A Narc's writing seems to have a deep emptiness in the written word. And the point is??? Thanks for posting the example from QS. The note is freakin bizarre... I received a recent note from a distant narc business colleague, Btw, this is a married narc.... " I have't heard from you in a while. Do you have any advice for this medical condition, I'm having a problem with it. Also, I'm reading this novel, and it takes place in your area, I think you would like it. Please let me know if you would like to talk. Warm Regards," Creepy.... Narc & I happen to have the same med. condition. I only know him from an one meeting and a few calls I think narc is looking for supply & another woman & as you say "grasping" for something in common...Wrote the medical website, & "I'm travelling & not available" Biz professional only. Go away, narcs!

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    3. Yes that sums it up kitties travel, a deep emptiness. Ugh about that narc writing you and trying to talk about medical conditions and book suggestions. I would not like a married man writing me that way I just knew from work. Puke!

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    4. Peep, puke is right! I have had this happen a few times with these narcs high up in the business world. I hope he heard the "unavailable" part loud % clear. This is what these narcs do...try to subtly manipulate a business relationship into a personal relationship right up your nose. Another reason to get off LI.

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  10. Good morning peeps,
    I look forward to looking at the links you've posted here. In the meantime, I wanted to say that I think your response to your mother's email was bang-on! She was treating you all like kindergarten students attending her class instead of right-thinking adults attending a family get-together. I don't think your freedoms of speech or your rights to express yourselves as the individuals that you were should have been taken away or curtailed in any form. Like you said, what would be the point then?
    And yes, my mother did claim to believe in God, but there was no evidence of it beyond her saying so. She did claim to have "sought counciling" at a church she lived across from a couple of years back, in the wake of an argument with my brother about him coming to visit me. I don't know if she actually went or not, or if it was just used as a guilt trip and for Sympathy's sake. She was raised a Christian, my grandmother attended The First Baptist Church.
    My brother and I were actually baptised Catholic. My mother dropped us off at her aunt's (on her father's side) who was Catholic, and who enrolled us in Catholic school. I still remember the wide-eyed looks we exchanged on that first day of Catholic school, as we looked out onto a massive courtyard filled with what seemed like hundreds of uniformed students ready to pledge allegiance, flanked by yard-stick-toting nuns every so many feet in habits. We didn't have our uniforms yet, and felt like a couple of aliens who had just landed on Mars (a very regimented Mars from the looks of it) and we were really scared. Continuing ...

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    1. There was constant infantlization like that, she sent the same email to her brother too who was in his 50s. And he put up with it! Just weird isn't it? She was an ignorer but there could be huge infantilization, "I'm in charge and you will do what I say. Remember I'm a Christian so telling me not to talk about religion, something I didn't bring up often around then anymore after witnessing once, was like telling me to deny Jesus Christ to eat some of her pork roast and rice a roni. What is the point? No she wanted to talk about FAMILY, star breeders and braggarts need only apply.

      Your mother may have put on pious displays while believing none of it. My mother always goes to Mass and while I consider Catholicism false, I don't see her as a sensitive seeker but one who does religious show-time, for "good appearances" otherwise even the Catholic church preaches and warns about hell and she certainly doesn't seem worried about ending up there.

      Oh man Catholic school would be alien territory, when I went to public school in junior high I had the opposite happen to me.

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  11. Hello again, continuing
    As for my own organic beliefs, being a child of the 70's I believed in "karma" or that what you gave is what you got. I very much believed the "do onto others" and still do (although that's not always panned out so well). My bible was "The Prophet" by Khalil Gibran, which I carried and read religeousely every day after I left home. In true Acon form my favorite (verse) was "on children" which I know by heart in English and Spanish. It begins,
    "Your children are not your children.
    They are the sons and daughters of Life longing for itself.
    They come through you but not from you
    And though they are with you hey belong not to you.
    You may give them your love but not their thoughts, for they have their own thoughts.
    You may house their bodies but not their souls, for their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
    You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you.
    For life goes not backward mor tarries with yesterday.
    You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
    The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite, and He bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far.
    Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
    For even as He loves the arrow that flies,
    So he loves the bow that is stable.
    I couldn't stop midway peeps but it seems apropos.
    Sincerely, Michelle

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    1. I read the prophet as a UU, wow that was many years ago. Even what you posted sounded very familiar. I don't go with those beliefs now but those books did have some wisdom in it, he's basically telling people you don't own your kids and many narcs do treat their children as objects and forget the children have their own souls and are going to go their own way! Non-narcs let their children FlY like the arrow, the narcs try to clamp a few chains on their ankles!

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  12. Hello again!
    I almost forgot. On the subject of why I suspect my mother did not take us to church was because we might have developed an outer support system and looked to a higher power. I believe she did not want that influence and she wanted to be the Supreme Being in our lives. Again, I commented to my brother, that she had even kept God to herself.
    Michelle

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    1. She wanted to be god in your life. So she delayed you even finding out about God as long as possible keeping you from church. Yeah she kept God to herself.

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  13. I see the lies in the writing. I think it might be easier to pick up on the lies, I once saw someone we know write on facebook that she has not eaten bread in over a year. We knew that wasn't true, she was visiting us and had some burgers. And there are other things too, that they just pull out of their butts, they say, it is never true. But it is like they believe what they say, so they say it cause its cool.

    So I started thinking all these trends going on, and eating bread is one of them, how many people don't see, burgers, pizza, hotdogs as not eating bread.


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    1. I sickened and tired of people doing the "no bread" bragging. I've heard that one too. Okay maybe you don't feel the room spin never to eat a carb but don't put it on me. Some of them acted like it was a religion. It tired me out. I know a friendship won't work out for me if they are always bragging about entire food groups they won't eat and won't eat in front of me. I think diets that tell people to remove whole food groups aren't healthy. I feel sick when I don't eat any carbs and I am a person who will snack on protein alone at times for sake of blood sugars.

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  14. So I'm Michelle. I wrote the "How To Be The Adult Child Of A Narcissist" article.

    First of all, I never intended to cause anyone to feel depressed or like they are horrible people because they are an ACON. In fact, I want to do the opposite. Also, I have never claimed to be an expert. In fact, I have said multiple times that I am not. That being said, I know that it is impossible to please everyone. I would like to apologize to you and tell you that I am sorry my writing made you feel bad.

    A few things, though, because I feel it is fair to let you know how I feel as well. I have to take exception to the "gaslighting" comment. While I acknowledge that you feel the way you feel, I don't think I have ever said anything that tries to dissuade anyone from their perception of reality. I am not telling untruths to try to bend reality in a shape I want. I can only say how I feel and what my experiences are, I am not suggesting that your way of viewing life is false and that mine is real. Gaslighting is insidious and an evil thing to do to another human. I think perhaps you either don't understand the term or you have misunderstood what I've written. I can assure you, gaslighting is not something I would do.

    When you compared my writing to David Sedaris, I felt a rush of shame...do people think I'm trying to be like him? Am I just a joke? Why do I even write anything? It took me a few minutes to talk myself down. Do I care? Even if the entire world finds me ridiculous, I am still going to write because I like to.

    As for being shallow and having an easy life. Wow. I guess I do write about shallow things and I do try to find humor in almost everything. That is how I cope. That is how I cope with anxiety and crippling self doubt. As far as an easy life? Well, I find it kind of curious that another writer feels they can judge the character of a fellow human by reading a few of her articles. I get that other people do that. Trust me, I have been judged much more harshly than this, but not usually from another writer. You have to know there is more to me than you found in a few of my articles.

    Again, I am sorry my article made you feel bad, but I wasn't writing about you. It wasn't a personal attack. You, on the other hand, did write specifically about me. And it did make me feel bad. I felt embarrassed and defensive.But you have every right to your opinion. And your opinion can only affect me if I let it. I'm not sure yet, exactly where I stand on that, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to go with "your opinion of me is not my business".

    I will support your right to write what you want with every breath I have.

    I wish you peace. I wish you success.

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