“He gazed up at the enormous face. Forty years it had taken him to learn what kind of smile was hidden beneath the dark moustache. O cruel, needless misunderstanding! O stubborn, self-willed exile from the loving breast! Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.” "1984"--George Orwell.
The other day, I went back to an old blog, I used to read all the time named Narcissists Suck. This blog with it's author, Anna V was very helpful to me once upon a time. Her blog was one that helped to open my eyes about narcissists and no contact. My gratitude for Anna V was always there as she was someone who lit a match for a light for me to find my way out of the ACON thicket. They always say be careful of elevating your heroes too high because sometimes you find out they have feet of clay or maybe you outgrow them?
Anyhow I saw this post on the Narcissists Suck blog:
Book Recommendation
Anna V recommended the book, "If You Tell" by Gregg Olsen. This book and what she had to say about it disturbed me. I did leave her a comment, but for some reason, the title of the book had not clicked when I wrote my comment. I had seen a TV show about the Knotek case too, and got confused. When I went to go read reviews, I realized I had read the book from the library some months ago. I also had seen a TV show too about the case.
Anna V's reaction to this book horrified me. She wrote:
"Like the Knotek sisters, I hate my mother, yet she was my mother and part of me loves her. It is a hard dichotomy to explain, but those of us with these kind of mothers understand perfectly."
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I responded back a couple weeks ago....[as of 6/27/20 my comment has NOT been posted on her blog]
If those Knotek sisters still love their mother, something is wrong with them, but then they should have maybe seen a prison cell too. I don't think they deserved full sentences as sociopaths put undue influence on teen children, but these girls went to school while their mother starved and beat disabled people and DID NOTHING. I wrote a controversial post on my blog some time ago where I was offended at those who preached love and forgiveness for the most sociopathic including the BK Killer.
http://fivehundredpoundpeeps.blogspot.com/2019/02/why-did-she-apologize-to-her-serial.html?showComment=1553283138179#c8525994975477158778
http://fivehundredpoundpeeps.blogspot.com/2019/03/forgive-and-forget-enables-them.html
I have to admit your post disturbed me, where you mentioned a GC supposedly narcissistic sister changing. Most will not have their GC [if truly with NPD] change.
When I was a fundamentalist Christian, I deconverted and have since left Christianity, I remember the talk about "God changing people" and "testimonies" which actually helped to enable abusive people to continue harming others.
Maybe your sister never was truly NPD, I don't know.....but those false religious promises can set people up to be re-offended against. A person who isn't NPD, may be able to change, and introspection will come, but those who are malignant and with it, that is never going to happen. I also get worried when people wax on about "love" for abusers.
Please be mindful of the ACONS who do not love their abusers, and who have been shamed for not producing emotions of fondness for those who tried to destroy them. Sadly in our authoritarian and toxic religious society, even if a parent, beats and starves you, one is told they "must love them".
Even the horribly abused Turpin children showed the same messages to "love and forgive" sociopathic parents. With the Turpin children, I wrote:
https://fivehundredpoundpeeps.blogspot.com/2019/04/the-turpin-parents-sentenced-to-25.html
"The evil are empowered on multiple levels in this society. Those who enact the worse crimes who don't have a sorry bone in their bodies, are excused and empowered while their victims or families of their victims are told to "forgive". I understand moving forward from abusers, but why are are their victims told over and over to suppress all emotions, to "forgive" and to give them place after place? This is especially strong in some religious circles."
I loved your blog for years, in fact finding your blog years ago, helped me so much. This post worries me though. Please be careful of telling people that God will change their abusers or flying monkeys or GC's in a family.
Today I see conservative Christianity as teaching many false and harmful things when it comes to abuse and "forgiveness". Evil is enabled in many of these circles.
I think there is something insidious about love for sociopaths being pushed in these notorious cases. I hope you can take the time to understand what I am warning of here.
Thanks for the book recommendation. I would like to read it but I can tell some of those messages are probably in this book too.
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I did read the book from the library. It was terrible. The psychopathic mother in the book is extreme. She basically is a serial killer who went after disabled and down and out people, moved them in and then tortured, starved, beat, imprisoned and killed them. Kathy Loreno and Ronald Woodworth were two boarders that lived with the Knotek family, where Michelle Knotek destroyed them over a series of months. Shane Watson was a nephew too, that lived with the Knotek family who was murdered at the behest of Michelle Knotek, by her husband David Knotek. In the book, Shane had taken pictures of the abuses done against Kathy and was going to expose Michelle and was shot by David. James McClintock was a later possible murder victim as well.
This book was a disgusting how-to manual on the ways humans scrape and bow and in cowardice do the bidding of manipulative sociopaths and psychopaths. Michelle Knotek played everyone for a fool around her and they all shuddered in fear before her. I don't have this book now to quote from it but the two oldest daughters while they were abused themselves, did witness the abuse, starvation, and killing of Kathy and Ronald. As I read this book, I was driven to tears and angry, but some of my anger was towards them, they would go to school and say nothing, they wouldn't even bring a slice of bread to Kathy or Ronald or call for any help, thus the title "If You Tell..." As the book proceeded, I was horrified.
They both, Nikki, and Sami [the youngest daughter--Tori- I don't hold as responsible] should have seen some charges for their inaction. This book angered me so much reading it, that while I understood psychopaths manipulate and teenagers will be afraid, I do hold the daughters at a level of culpability in refusing to do anything for the people they watched be killed. Where was their empathy? My level of disgust for them was pretty high. They even left their youngest sister in the pit for years, after they left home knowing their mother was a murderer. They were all complicit. The monster sadist mother was allowed to hurt and kill people with no one standing up to the extremes of brutality and the silent people around her helped make it happen.
The excuse making in the book for the weak most likely Dark Triad husband, and the daughters made no sense to me. As I have written on this blog many times, enablers, betraying bystanders and more hold responsibility too. Every ACON has had their moments of weakness and cowardice in the face of sociopaths and malignant narcissists. I regret some of my own though in my case, I did attempt rescue of other scapegoats from abuse and to ally with them. But would a person of any conscience sit and watch someone be killed and then do nothing? Could you or I watch someone be tortured and do nothing watching these horrors for months? Cowardice is something abusers use to do their evil and they get away with it.
I saw this man on the show Evil Lives Here, who did express remorse and disgust at his own cowardice in refusing to help save two sisters from his own psychopathic mother Teresa Knorr, he went to school too, as one was chained to a table and killed, and the other locked in a closet and starved to death. William and Robert did face charges in this case. Teresa Knorr led them to have active participation, but what can say about the two daughters in this case? This blog post angered me and later made me want to throw up.
Anna V admits Knotek is evil, but then gives us the "love sociopaths/malignant narcissists/psychopath" message. She starts writing about how her supposed NPD sister "changing" and talks about "loving her mother" even while admitting some hate. The book, "If You Tell" was a very hard book to read but one running theme in the book is basically a murdering sociopath achieving malicious victory over others via manipulation and cowardice. David Knotek most likely is on the malignant narcissist/sociopath spectrum too, as he callously murdered his wife's nephew---the girls were lied to and told he had left. The nephew was going to run away but the mother wanted him dead because she was afraid of being exposed.
The disabled people who got starved and beaten in front of the teenage girls and one younger sister watched the mother do all these horrible things, they even have descriptions in the book of walking past the boarders as they were locked in small cages out in the barn and bleach being poured over Ronald's injuries. The suffering they went through was extreme. The two daughters were going to school and seeing neighbors, and were not locked up themselves. One even escaped and never told anyone what happened at home after she was safe. There were descriptions of both murder victims begging for food and being ignored. I almost did not finish this book, I was so upset.
I don't mind someone recommending books on true crimes, these things need talked about to be stopped but the "love" talk nauseates me. The two oldest daughters remain in contact with their father who shot their cousin and murdered him as a teen, that is a problem. The daughters yes were abused, the mother had them run around naked, she beat them, and had them wallow in mud, denied them hygiene, food and clothing. I think they should have faced some charges for their inaction but their abuse histories definitely should have been taken into account if there had been any court actions.
One thing that is scary here, is Michelle Knotek may get out soon. A masterful sociopath managed to manipulate the court system. The daughters warn she is still a danger. Wikipedia claims they are no contact with the mother and that Nikki the youngest is the only daughter who is no contact with the father.
Back to Anna V, the comments about the daughters still loving this mother disturbed me. So Anna V's take on this house of sociopathic horrors book, was I love Mommy too!? and My narcissist sister has really changed!?. This book was like a primer of most people kissing sociopathic butt, and how much of cowards they can be. Just look at Trump, the destruction of America and all the cowards and sycophants around him.Where's her sense of outrage? We definitely viewed this book very different.
This is one dark human trait, where the worse get the most accolades and dare I even say demands for love! Where's the love for the victims here? In our society, evil is enabled at multiple layers. The message is go submit. While some scapegoats stand up against evil and walk on, counting our losses, some remain as identifiers with abusers.
With Anna V who in the past seemed so strong and resolute, my disappointment is great. Perhaps some start off strong and then break later. The pressures can be unrelenting even for someone long into no contact to go rejoin the Borg and assimilate with gooey-eyed dreams of "forgiveness" and "changed hearts". Conservative Christianity sure shoves that stuff down people's throats. Those are some circles that really demand acquiescence to the powerful.After all if you are to bow before an all powerful capricious God that sends most humans to hell, maybe this translates to what type of humans you put before others.
Maybe some obtain higher status, that changes their role in the family via career and return. One thing I have noticed about Anna V and yes I only have so much information available to me via her blog, is she seems to have escaped the poverty, family and job problems that come for many life long scapegoats. I have to admit when a self-admitted scapegoat has life go swimmingly well free of autoimmune disease, disabilities, career problems, money problems, it makes me wonder how severe the abuse really was? Many scapegoats can find success and financial security don't get me wrong, but one thing I note in our status oriented society, is most scapegoats who are severely abused end up with a stacked deck.
I tend to distrust self-avowed scapegoats who formerly went full no contact, and then suddenly end up with full inheritances, status and respect within their families. How does this happen? Can someone fill me in on this? Yes some with marriage, luck, work that pays off and careers that work out, can do well, and maybe with this higher status in their abusive family, they go and rejoin heads full of cotton candy and family mythos, saying "I love my family, my golden child formerly narcissistic sibling has changed!" Add in flowing liters of Jesus Juice and some commit newly to the family dream, their earlier "negative" musings set aside.
Some former scapegoats do choose the system. Like Uncle Ruckus who hates being black on the Boondocks and helps out the racists, many scapegoats choose the side of the powerful and then teach us we must love and forgive abusers. They tell us the people who hold the power, are owed most of our love and obedience. We live in a sick society, where power and status denote everything and the "dominator" culture teaches people to bow before those who have oppressed them. "Internalized oppression" is a concept that one can consider here. The messages are: Submit to the family. Submit to the people in charge. Submit to mother, father, boss, the people with money, the people who are "not weak". The "family" in our culture is often a tool of oppression, never question the "cult leader", and the myths there can oppress us, such as the one, "you must always love your mother" even if she is a murdering psychopath.
Us supposedly unloving ACONs who no longer love our abusers, nor smile up at the Big Brother's or Big Mamas who sought to literally destroy us, physically and otherwise, are deemed as the "radicals" who must be silenced or ostracized. I notice some of the most popular and well read blogs--even ones on a 10 year long hiatus, preaching the societally mandated messages of "love your abusers", definitely move up the ranks. I do not think this is by accident.
One reason I am no longer a Christian, is the oppressive nature of the conservative Christian world. I do see the conservative Christian world as allied with evil. This shows on multiple layers. I can be allies with liberal Christians even as one who no longer believes in the religion who see a loving Jesus of freedom--a radical Christ who was seen against the system, but lets be frank modern conservative Christians belong to a religion that is power focused. Pay attention to WHO they tell you to love. It's not the down and out or weak. It's not the disabled people chained up in a cage. This is a religion that pushes full ableism. They want you to love your abuser. They want you to love the mother who abused you. They are happy when people are obedient and LOVE their murdering sociopaths or in the case of the Turpins someone who chained you to a bed and left you mal-nutritioned for years.
Conservative and evangelical Christianity kills empathy and these conservative Christians only value families and "breeders" so single people who are disabled are deemed worthless and disposable, with the emphasis that love should be given to murdering psychopaths and narcissists. I know questioning these societal edicts by the way, is really sticking my head out. These are some of the most controversial articles that earn me the most ire. How dare you? I know with this one it may bring negative responses. That's fine with me. If more people spoke out, maybe we'd get somewhere instead of being told to coddle and enable abusers.
Anna V was one of the most well-liked ACON bloggers out there. With Anna, since she was someone who lit up my path out, I hope she understands and reads this not seeing condemnation but being brought to a place of self-examination to ask herself what are you allied with? Why do you preach love for the worse? Do you really love your abusers, or do you assent because you are told you MUST? Why didn't you question the message of this book like I did?
No one loved the disabled and poor in this book. They were seen as "throw-aways" desperate for a home. I write this article to defend them and others like them, who have the world busy loving the sociopaths. Kathy and Ronald deserved a lot better. Maybe the daughters instead of going on about loving their mother and making excuses for their cowardice should have confronted their lack of love for them. I cried reading about how Kathy and one daughter were even close and Kathy showed her love and was betrayed even after all that.
By the way, being disabled myself, I know people who have been desperate and very abused invited into homes. One of my closest friends who I talked to on the phone everyday for 17 years, was locked up and chained to a bed, to have a Social Security check stolen before I knew her. The vulnerable of this society became far more so as the evil are enabled, and given far higher places. That horrible deliverance minister invited people in, to live with her. She preyed on the disabled too to play her head games and from what I could tell many of her clients that did go live there, were homeless and poor and disabled. To be disabled in American society means you are very vulnerable and forced to be dependent on the help of others. Disability checks especially SSI are well below survival levels. Many predators take advantage of that.
Those who wax on about love for their abusers, have rejoined the system and promote it.
Anna V is friends with Sister Renee. I was on her boards when I was still a Christian. One scary thing about Sister Renee, she wrote an "OK BOOMER" flavored book about "mooches", aka poor people in her family. That probably tells you everything you need to know. Younger people [Gen X on down] have been horribly abused by religious boomers who refuse to acknowledge how the economic world has changed for them. I was going to order her books but after I saw that decided not to. I knew someone who had such a horrible attitude towards poor people was not someone who was going to relate to my situation.
Obviously Sister Renee is not someone who is on the economically disenfranchised side, as her anger is for the relatives who borrowed money from her. I would see her outraged posts about those in need on her Facebook pages too and it turned me off. The existence of this book angered me years ago, because many scapegoats end up poor and out of money....so she writes this well-off woman book complaining about poorer family members?
Let's just say the conservative Christian track record with the poor, isn't a good one. This is another place where I wonder about the higher status and money influencing ACON writings. I used to love Anna V's blog, but now that's no longer true.
Maybe I changed, it may not be all her, but to see so many backtrack on formerly strong stances can be rough. There's not many ACON blogs out there. Having one of the most well-known ACON blogs backtrack on the strong positions of ten years ago is not easy. I worry about other ACONS who may have even gone no contact years ago, finding her blog, and feeling uneasy. The illusion of "changed" narcissists is a scary and dangerous one too, as many ACONs feel the pressure to "forgive" their families and I have heard of people even going back into the fray 10 years later only to be reburned and abused.
She is promoting a false dream there to many. My sister is never going to suddenly see and validate me. That's a fool's notion. God never changed my narcissists or made what happened to me right or brought me any justice. Everyone loved and chose my mother. What does love mean, when all the love is meant for the most cruel? Nothing. She wrote about her family's abuse, and cruelties for years and suddenly now they are alright? Contact is just fine after she preached no contact? How many of us ACONs were shamed for not loving our abusers?
Notice the message here, even the Knotek sisters LOVE their monster mother, and the message is "so should you". Be wary of pro-establishment ACON blogs, message boards, support groups etc. I had one blogger years ago, do the "you are so unforgiving" line with me years ago. They know what they are doing preaching these messages. There's a lot of forces in society that do not want people questioning power structures of family, politicians, and monied circles. Dealing with narcissism and how evil works is getting right to the heart of it all.
It does not escape my attention that books like this one, or that Educated book, I wrote on all have the message, "Love your abusers, Love Big Brother/Mama/Father". The memoirs that get all the attention are the ones where the victims "forgive" and still love the abusers. People are lied to and told if they are forgiving and nice, they will go on to have great lives. What a con that is! It goes along with the inspiration porn used against the disabled and the poverty porn meritocracy lies! The abusers show absolutely no love, but the abused are to submit and love even to monster psychopaths and murderers. No one ever asks why everyone is being told to love the people who are life-long incapable of it, and have proven themselves to dangerous to the rest of us. These authors play a game that they have 'transcended" evil by loving the evil and it is a lie. They have abandoned and betrayed the victims of the evil over and over.
They all push this disgusting forgiveness agenda that enables evil. Here it is even promoted for a disgusting woman that makes Ted Bundy look benign because he at least killed his victims quickly while this one drew out the torture and pain over a series of months. The daughters in this book were accomplices to evil. Their love for their mother does not impress me, it sickens me.
{Update on this, I still follow teachings of Jesus Christ, but conservative Christianity is following a scary path in this world}
