I had an interesting conversation on this blog article.
"Guys Who Like Fat Chicks"
Scroll down to the comments and see what I had to say to a fat admirer writing in.
Here is a segment:
"I just don't think telling superfat women they have to "settle" is an answer.
Yes, being superfat may even preclude the relationship due to functionality issues to start.
But don't superfat people deserve real LOVE too where the WHOLE PERSON is embraced?
Yes I have had people come up to me in shock, that my husband married me. By the way, his family banned the wedding. Some people told him to his face he was nuts. I have been told I have married "out of my league" even based on his looks. {yes seriously}
And marriage takes work, but if you are going to have a FETISH skewing it all at the start how successful will it be?"
Too many fat women especially in stratosphere sizes are told they have to "take what they can get". I would fathom it is better to be alone, then to be with someone who has made a fetish out of you. One thing I do know dating can be far harder for those in the extreme sizes, I am not talking just mid-sized fat people but women in the 400plus weight ranges. Many people I know in my weight ranges do not marry, or date at all, some of this is due to the limitations of functionality but also social realities. I dated very late myself.
I'll be honest, when I was in the size acceptance world, I saw many dysfunctional relationships where it seemed to me that very fat women were more prone to ending up with extremely predatory men and ones of dubious moral and other characters. I saw horrible stuff from the sides. Some of the women, were with men who told them because they were very fat, they had to put up with them sleeping with other women and I saw women who took this! There were the abusers and other horrible men. Some treated their very plus sized partners with a disdain, and like they were DOING THEM A FAVOR. If you end up with a man like that run, RUN!
I had this terrible experience of once telling this 400lb+ lady I knew in size acceptance social circles, "You are too desperate to get married, you could end up with an abuser or worse". What happened to her, as I found out a couple years after moving away, was beyond horrible as she lost her life to the worse kind of man. I still shudder thinking about that.
Many superfat women lowered their boundaries to get what they could get, and I noticed in the FA [fat admirer] playground world of size acceptance society, that the FAs I found myself in contact with and turning down because I was already engaged, didn't seem to hold to even normative standards of monogamy and morality. In other words, the numbers of "players" seemed to outdistance, the number of normal guys looking for a wife or girlfriend. As I have written before, I became a Christian later but was conservative enough back then to be horrified.
This can happen to ALL women, but I think anyone facing disabilities and super-obesity they are more at risk. One good friend of mine, now deceased used to tell me "broken" people attract other "broken" people. While some of us may be able to find long-time relationships, and I am not saying even those relationships are trouble free-be married over 10 years and many issues will crop up, super-fat women especially need to be careful out there.
Sometimes with us super-fat women, we have to draw our lines stronger, and even as a relationship develops even years later, make sure to hold to our boundaries. When my husband lost his jobs, and we saw the bottom fall out, a few years back, it put incredible strain on us. I had to face some of my own what the pyschological world would call "co-dependent" behavior and even in my own marriage, make it clear there was expectations that were going to be held up. Things are going well now, but relationships in general take work especially when you are getting close to the 15-20 year mark. If you pair up with someone who is into the "fetish" of fat, I dare say the odds are lesser for a long term commitment. I also question how many of those free-willing fat fetish types hold to old school beliefs regarding marriage, dating or relating?
However remembering what I have seen in the size acceptance world and seeing what other fat women have encountered in the regular dating world unless a super-fat woman has very good support systems and has developed extraordinary confidence, the dating and relationship world is full of more minefields then even for a normal woman. Women can be in danger in looking for relationships to fulfill way too many needs. One person can not hand you self fulfilment on a platter. I believe one cannot get their needs met from one human being even if all the romantic songs tell us otherwise and one should be looking to God first. Others still, having faced a hateful society and endless rejection, some from their own families even, put all their chickens in one basket which can leave them very vulnerable to the wolves of the world out there skulking around to see who they can devour.
So for women who are superfat and in the very high sizes, if you desire to date or marry, you need to be careful. If you choose not to date, that is understandable too because of the other factors including functionality. You have to look at what the other person can handle and make sure they are going into the relationship with their eyes open regarding fertility, health, disability and financial issues. When I married, we did not expect me to live very long. I had already told by the doctors unless I lost weight, and there was already mutterings about my thyroid caused cardiomyopathy, that I would be dead very soon, and I was in and out of the hospital constantly back then with my weight near 700lbs. Maybe I was young and romantic and foolish, to get married at such a huge size, and even years later told my husband maybe it wasn't fair to you, and wondered it then but he has told me I've given him years of happiness despite the hardships and would not change a thing.
So I know women my size can meet someone who does love them, but there is serious dangers out there in the dating world. Other women who face other disabilities, and my husband has to deal with my eroding hearing, also can be more vulnerable. I think I saw too much with those other fat women. As I have written about on this blog many times, even seeing how some super fat women were lured into pornography in size acceptance breaks my heart to this day. This included women in the 600lb plus weight range, being told this exploitation would bring them acceptance. The wolves of the world like to manipulate the suffering.
Anyhow the superfat woman needs to be very careful out there. You may if you decide to date, realize you have to look for something deeper beyond the "meat market". From my own personal opinion that is where your best options lie, where the compatibility is based on shared intellect and personality and outlook in life. For me the life of the mind always counted more then the life of the body. There are other people out there, who do not focus on the physical body to the detriment of everything else.
I think you have written a heart-felt and thoughtful essay that makes a number of excellent points.
ReplyDeleteBut I think you are unfairly demonizing FAs. Sure there are some who have and do behaive in the way you describe. Just as there are non-FAs who do similar things to non-fat women.
But there are also plenty - PLENTY - of FAs who are attracted to fat for whatever reason, even those who have an unhealthy obsession with it, who ALSO want to have a good strong healthy relationship with a BBW or a SSBBW.
I think you are also being completely naive if you think that there are more than a tiny handful of non-FAs out there who will "overlook" a 500lb woman's size to be with "the person." You have to love fat to put up with the consequences. When you love fat, helping your SSBBW walk a few steps or get in and out of the shower or to clean her can be a warm intimate loving thing much more easily than for someone who does not have those feelings.
I truly wish that this was not true - it would surely be a signal of the decline of fat hatred in the world. But I don't think there is any good reason to think that. it would be interesting to hear from any large people who read this blog about successful relationships they have had with non-FA partners (men or women).
Finally, I think you are wrong to think that more than a handful of people can be happy without some kind of lover/partner/spouse in their life. there is no reason to think that SSBBWs, even those at very high weights, are any different than anyone else.
I think you make one great point which I will concede - the high weight SSBBW is dealing from a position of weakness. Inequality creates the possibility for exploitation. How can that be overcome?
sure I will concede there are all sorts of FAs, there many be a few who while attracted to fat at first, will have qualities where the relationship will come FIRST and the person TOO. There are different levels of everything out there. You are right there are men who objectify women for other qualities they like especially at the first bloom of attraction, and well, there too, will it grow into a healthy relationship or not?
ReplyDeleteYou are right, the dating field is not as expansive for the very super-sized fat woman, they may have to work their way around the traditional "meat market" which I think is more prone to do them a disservice. You are probably right that most people are not going to take on someone with serious handicaps though it is not impossible. I dare say the same thing would apply to people who face other physical and mental disabilities, both hidden and unhidden. Conditions ranging from deafness to paralysis. Disabled people have even been forming their own dating networks. Perhaps a SSBBW's best options lie with other fat men or ones who have faced other things that would give them understanding? Everyone who is disabled in this world for various degrees, is in that place of finding someone who wants to be with "the person". My main point is that is what a very fat woman SHOULD SEEK.
Maybe you see the FAs as enjoying the fat itself, in trade-off for them being able to handle the disabled very fat woman. I beg to differ, because watching the spin of the social FA-size acceptance world, I noticed when very fat women got sick, ie can't breathe, can't keep up with the social fat whirlwind, can't travel, many of them got dumped or even worse, the men told them you are too fat, we have to have an "open relationship" here. As I wrote before it seemed normal more's didn't apply.
I would like to hear from those too who had successful relationships with non-FA partners.
It is harder to be happy without a life partner. So I agree with you there, but reality is, for the very supersized even the functionality issues make it far harder to obtain a partner. Then you look at the normal dating world. Many very supersized people even men, never marry.
Thanks for understanding one of my points, about the high weight superfat woman, being very vulnerable and open for exploitation. I heard terrible stories by the way, I had a friend online for many years, who reached out to the severely overweight, she is now deceased herself, but she found a case where a superfat woman was kept in a walk-in closet, by a predator man as he went out with other women but kept her at home for his needs. There were many dark things I found out about. I have had enough superfat friends to know what they have suffered.
Those with rejecting families who did not protect them suffered far far worse.
Some I have not even written about on this blog they were that awful. Superfat women are some of the most abused people on this planet. I think of the strength I had to develop even to survive myself day to day. In my case, I already got tested in fire working with violent youth and gangsters pre-weight gain. I have no illusions about how evil this world can get, and for a vulnerable population, who is not only facing a severe health problem that is body-wide, but some of the most incredible stigma on the planet, the need for caution is paramount.
The anecdotes you have mentioned here are horrifying (certainly the one about the SSBBW kept in walk-in closet...). (Assuming we have all the relevant facts about that. Which I'm not sure we really do. I mean, if the woman could get into the closet, was she completely unable to get out when bf not around? or scream for help? and if she never left, how did she relieve herself? But whatever - we can agree there are a tiny group of horrible, deranged people out there who get off on keeping others in closets).
ReplyDeleteBut the problem is this. Relying on anecdotes to reach conclusions is very dangerous. I could tell you a story of the very fat woman in Las Veges who took five trips to buffet line and then asked to have one of every desert brought to her, but you would certainly not take that as convincing evidence that all fat women are fat because they over-eat. Right?
Well, the same point applies here. Perhaps some FAs leave their SSBBW partners when they get sick. But there are also many, many cases of FAs who have provided loving support for the SSBBW over a period of years. And note, if we are talking 500+ pounds, everyday can be a challenge for the FA partner, not just at some moment of crisis.
There is another reason I am skeptical about using examples from the SA world. People who look for partners through dances for fat people, or 3-day bashathons or whatever they are called, are not typical of all SSBBWs out there (the vast majority of whom never set foot in such events). The FAs who go to these events are not typical of all FAs out there either. As a result, you get a skewed impression. There are many, many quiet and lovely relationships we do not hear about because they are not in the FA/BBW world.
How many horror stories do you know that involve SSBBWs who have not been involved in the social life of the SA-movement?
I do think you have a critical point about the potential for exploitation being greater for SSBBWs, which may make it easier for FAs to take advantage of them. And for the SSBBWs who read this blog, that may be an important warning. I'd like to ponder how those relationships can be made more equal. But that does not justify using a few isolated examples to paint in broader strokes an evil vision of all FAs.
Yeah that anecdote is pretty horrifying. She actually was rescued by the outreach person I was friends with. This was out of state so I only knew the details I had been told. I think her being unable to get out, probably had to do mostly with being unable to get off the floor. I also wondered how she survived. You are right someone that sick probably is a member of a smaller deranged psychopathic group.
ReplyDeleteYeah you are right, about the overeating fat woman, hey I met acouple myself but as you know I differentiate between those with real bonfide eating disorders and metabolic problems.
I have no objections with the spectrum of perhaps an FA who likes bigger women like a man who likes redheads, as long as he has not taken things into fetish land and if he is otherwise balanced. Could a guy like that even be called a FA? Some women like bigger taller men, does that make them FAs or just normal facets of human attraction that later bring on love and a true relationship.
Maybe I just saw too many weirdos in the size acceptance social world, like this guy who I didn't even know deciding he was "love with me" when I was at my peak weight. I was already engaged, there for NAAFA events not anything dating based, but it just was weird.
I agree some men may stick by their woman. Surely my husband has and in my case I have surpassed the 500lb mark, for over 10-15 years.
The SA world you are right may be very different. Frankly it did seem set aside from the NORMAL world.You are right maybe this was a false world to judge things from. I would actually warn fat women stay away.
Living in a small town like I did, I surely saw fat women married to regular sized men, plenty of women in the 300s-400s range, though I didn't know many of my own size. Are their husbands FAs? I think they did love the whole person in these cases whatever the attraction was based on.
Thanks fro being understanding about the potential for exploitation for the SSBBW. If anything, I want to warn SSBBWs reading this blog, that they do have the need to be extra careful. I too wonder how things could be changed for the better and relationships more equal. Probably if we lived in a society that was less fat hating it would help and if there were more social and other supports for those struggling with severe obesity and other disabilities as well.
I don't think you're being fair about the FA's in the world. Yes there are very many creepy ones that end up not liking a woman if she loses weight or whatever. However, there are many who just prefer bigger women. What is wrong with that? Some people prefer thinner people and some prefer women who are fairly large.
ReplyDeleteThen again, I don't believe in limitations of size. I think that while one has a certain kind of fetish, it shouldn't limit who you date. If you refuse to date a woman unless she's fat or getting fat---it is just as shallow as not dating a woman because she's not thin enough.
I think its okay for the people to perfer larger people, I guess mine is for the ones who turn it into a fetish and ignore the person, that is the ones I am concerned about. Agree with your last comment.
ReplyDelete