Wednesday, February 13, 2019
Why Did She Apologize to Her Serial Killer Dad?
I was reading a People magazine, left in free magazines, I don't buy that kind of thing myself, and well the BTK Killer's daughter was portrayed. She's written a book about her life with him. He played a double Jekyll and Hyde so she didn't grow up being beaten and abused, though she saw his anger on rare occasion. What made me sick is how false forgiveness is always promoted in our society. Here's a guy who murdered people just for kicks, even an entire family except for two of their kids with the Oteros, and this is what the daughter wrote about him in the Feb 4th 2019 People magazine.
"When I got home, I burst into our office telling Darian [her husband] I'd forgiven my father. I then sat down and wrote him for the first time in five years.
I had come to terms with what happened with you and laid to rest. I am never going to understand it, but I forgive you. I'm sorry and I miss you.
There have massive struggles since forgiving my dad. Yet on the days when I'm not wrestling with hard, terrible truths. I will tell you I love my dad--the one I mainly knew. On the good days--I'm near as I can to being healed."
His admission to her, "I have serious problems" was one written about in the article.
Her family was Christian. [Lutheran church]
I read that and thought "why are you apologizing to him?"
No one would want to be her, and find out this horror. She's gone through a lot. Sadly though she's been indoctrinated obviously via "her faith" mentioned in the article, into false forgiveness.
There's a certain thing in some modes of Christianity, where the abusers and totally evil are empowered. I was always told to "forgive" but no one ever tried to tell my mother to treat me better. Since my deconversion, I've had thoughts about how "turn the other cheek" and "forgive 70 times 70" has impacted society in negative ways to the point that a daughter of a serial killer is telling her murdering sociopathic father, "I'm sorry". She has contact with him still as I could tell in the article.
Why do so many Christian circles push forward this false forgiveness and empowerment even of the most wicked? This article appeared in a magazine that millions of Americans read. Our heart strings are pulled for the "poor" serial killer instead of his victims he left bloodied and dead on the floor, many I am sure begged for their lives.
Victims in some places in Christianity are told not to have any emotions, to suck it up. Let's look at the endless sex abuse cases, in Catholicism, the IFB and now being exposed in the SBC. Everyone will tell the sexually and other wise abused, they need to "forgive". They are chided in church after church for even daring to talk about what happened to them. Many of us while in Christian church including me in the last IFB, heard sermons that even called us wicked for departing from abusive families. In this recent deconversion article, I wrote about how evil is enabled in many religious circles.
Why do the abusers have most of the religious leadership kowtow to them? There's some deep reasons that spiritually I could no longer tolerate my fundamentalist Christian beliefs of the past. I got tired of being told to say "I am sorry" to the evil. I was in that place once, like her, saying "I am sorry" to my mother. In her case, what about being sorry for his victims? There are so many delusions now promoted in false religions and new age philosophies, that dumb people down about evil, and preach the message to be compliant in the face of evil.
It made me sad reading about that woman apologizing to her serial killer sociopathic father. It also says something about our religions and our society. The evil are empowered on multiple levels in this society. Those who enact the worse crimes who don't have a sorry bone in their bodies, are excused and empowered while their victims or families of their victims are told to "forgive". I understand moving forward from abusers, but why are are their victims told over and over to suppress all emotions, to "forgive" and to give them place after place? This is especially strong in some religious circles. Hmm maybe there's a reason why sex abuse in multiple Christian denominations and churches has become a problem. The messages of submission to the evil and that the emotions of the abused are more of a problem then the evildoers themselves never end.
I always notice how the anger of abused victims is condemned far worse. We now see forgiveness even for a heartless serial killer who has one of the blackest souls on the planet promoted in a national magazine. It made me want to throw up.
"Forgiveness" is not part of my own personal vocabulary when it comes to this kind of thing. Psychopaths love forgiveness, right? It helps them with their justifications. They are already in a "justification mindset", and I feel we don't need to add to it.
ReplyDeleteThe important thing here are the victims, the families of the victims, and all who were impacted, and keeping loved ones safe.
In terms of how many people these killers hurt, it has to be somewhere in the ballpark of what a drone attack does to a village or a large wedding party. Do we, or does anyone else, forgive the drone operators or the drone for killing people, even if these people are the unintended targets?
There is a lot of hypocrisy around the "forgiveness demand". Perhaps it was originally set up to keep people from committing sin. They had to go in and confess their sins to the priest, whereby they'd have other eyes on their situation, someone who would bring things up. Then the person would receive a lecture, told what to do to redeem themselves, and then forgiven so that they could make amends without having the dark cloud of former sins and shame hanging over their heads. The point was to move in a better direction, and become a better person, a servant of God. In that context, maybe it can work to bring about redemption, but not in cases like the serial killer dad. It has gone quite a bit beyond the typical confessional: "I hurt my sister for telling her she was stupid. I said it in anger and I know I was wrong to say it."
Yes psychopaths love forgiveness. This reminds me when my brother told me I had to forgive three and four times, hmmm the forgiveness crap was probably in the thousands by the time I walked, and said no more. Forgiving psychopaths is like petting serpents and giving them a place to bite again. I mean she gets letters from this guy still, he's probably already running complex mind games on her even now.
DeleteShe said he has some dementia starting? Hmm maybe, or maybe just a sick mind going in circles.
I agree they are already in justification mode, and like we all owe them forgiveness and our tears. I'll go back to a point I made before about religion, they say the abused have demons--all the deliverance ministries but never talk about the "demons" of the abusers.
I agree the victims need to be first and their families, and their pain, suffering and grief. People need protected. A lot of these serial killer types, they don't catch them on every murder, there may be 10 official ones they KNOW of, but the real number could be far far higher. There's even that guy in California, Alcalpa? Can't remember the name exact, where they said, he could have murders that number up to 50.
Sure the forgiveness thing was used in the confession, etc, to go out and "sin no more" though that had to work only with people of some conscience and remorse. Here we see how even the denial of what sociopathy is or what it entails or that there are people among us who have no consciences, is denied on a national level.
Oh Peeps, the reason why snarling narcs play their sadistic games at church because... well, it's safer.
ReplyDeleteUnlike a smokey barroom, where they, in short order, would get their teeth knocked out in the parking lot.
Let's look at our society, the two-facers are making mincemeat of people in business, education, government etc. I don't know at the bar, they are probably fooling people while pouring the drinks out for their friends too. I do see a lot of churches as happy-hunting grounds for psychopaths or a cover that fools people. Let's not forget the BTK was the deacon at his local Lutheran church.
DeleteI stopped going to Christian churches more than a year ago because I had a falling out with several members who did not mention the word "forgiveness" but made some veiled messages to imply that I should let go and let God plan my life. They made statements to imply that my abusive adopted narc mother was a part of Gods plan for my life and attend a church where a pastor's 90-year-old aunt who wanted to "talk to me" because I cut my adopted mother out of my life.
ReplyDeleteThe main motivation for verbal discipline to abuse victims was mainly money: the church wants or needs money for services related to family planning, marriage counseling and services, funeral, and estate planning. Many toxic people who are active churchgoers and big givers want to participate in family planning activities and to be named in estates and funeral planning. Many toxic churches are not willing to help victims of abuses because some ministers and church employees are abusers themselves or people who could stomach toxic theological concepts such as not supporting civil rights.
The majority of active churchgoers who could give abundantly are abusive people. Many narc parents, abusive spouses, rapists, women who trick men into unplanned fatherhood and 18 years of involuntary servitude are these types of people. These are the people who come to pastors and church employees to ask for forgiveness and for help with people who refuse to forgive them. Some pastors and ministers identify with toxic people more than they do with victims who are healing and taking care of themselves
I think the daughter if the BTK serial killer had a hard life in that she was ostracized and isolated. She went to the church to make friends, find a support system, and gain acceptance. Toxic people and organizations prey on lonely, vulnerable people as the serial killer's daughter appeared to be and then church members and pastor emotionally abused her. She probably has a narc mother which may be responsible for her isolation from society and her lack of social skills to find a support system outside toxic churches. She might be a toxic person herself and possibly a convert narc. I am suspicious that she is using her father to cash on her fifteen minutes of fame and it is that she is up to no good. Her church probably received free publicity by having that woman in a TV show.
Oh yes the God's plan for our lives stuff, this often means if someone has a hard life that they are seen as at fault or God is punishing them. I am glad to no longer be around those beliefs. God didn't seem to like me too much given some outcomes. I was told "trust in God", "let go and let God" and other nebulous nonsense that just increased my inner pain. It's terrible you went through this. I know trying to scramble and beg, etc, even for release from pain, almost me drove to madness.
ReplyDeleteI told the last IFB I was estranged. Didn't go in detail. I got subtle shame for that. The pastor even near the time I left, two sermons before the pro-war sermon, preached that all should "forgive" family members and that it is evil to part ways from them. So I was supposed to sit there and take more abuse.
I was told that being abused was the plan for my life, and all the calls for solace and comfort were for my abusers. This is something that troubles me about Christianity, how the victims of abuse are told to forgive but the abusers never told to shape the hell up. That's one reason so many conservative denominations have a sex abuse problem. I was secretive about my past, fearing the church ladies coming to shame me over not "honoring my mother", there was one time at a Christian book club, one woman ranted saying that "honoring parents" meant we had to take their abuse no matter their age. I was glad I kept my mouth shut. Another now ex-friend, shamed me and told me, I was evil and "unforgiving" for cutting off my family.
Most churches do revolve around "family" life. If you don't have one, especially in conservative churches that ignore the reality of the childless or adult singles or consider those people "lessers", yes there's money attached to those family services.
continuing...
ReplyDeleteMost abuse victims are treated as people who "sinned" and I have noticed as an outsider they were always deemed the sinners or ones full of demons from their abuse instead of the abusers being challenged to change or stop their bad behaviors. I believe this is due to the authoritarianism of conservative evangelical/trad Christianity where if you think about it even as far as God is concerned "Might makes right" so the most powerful people, are the ones who are to be given place. Some could concede there are teachings of Jesus against the powerful but sadly Christianity as a religion today supports power systems, narcissists, "might makes right". and nonsense I heard about how people fighting for their rights was wrong. I realized now there was subtle racism in churches when they preached things like "fighting for rights was of Satan, and that God expected people to obey authorities, employers government etc. I later wondered why the 10 commandments did not outlaw slavery or rape, those seem to be huge omissions and realized that the bibles support of slavery and telling "slaves" [I look up all the Hebrew and Greek translations] to obey bothered me a lot.
Authoritarian religion thusly supports abuse. "might makes right", this is why so many conservative churches tell parents, to spank their children and beat them. "Spare the rod, spoil the child", which means children have no voice as parent's are always the ones who are right and in charge no matter what, even seemingly into adulthood in some religious circles. Add in the second class status of women, where women are told via religion that men are in charge and they must obey. This was taught to me. I didn't agree and once even got rebuked for having too "egalitarian" of a marriage with my "unsaved" husband.
I noticed too without fail my conservative pastors if I opened my mouth identified far more with my abusers. After all my family believed in the system and "might makes right" in the Catholic context. I was deemed a rebel for not submitting. My mother is seen as a "good religious woman" while I am the heretic deemed for hell.
I am sure BTK's daughter, if she followed in the same religious footsteps of her father, also heard the same thing from churches, to honor the parents. This means even though her father is a sociopathic murdering fiend, that she is still writing letters and aiming for her father's attentions and love. It makes me sad. I do think she probably faced ostracization, too but probably heard plenty of messages from churches, that enabled even very sociopathic individuals, speaking of forgiveness. My Christian churches never warned me about sociopaths or people without conscience, in the church world those things were never discussed. The bible spoke of reprobates, but that's a nebulous term that really didn't define evil.
I wonder about the mother too, what became of her. Was the mother a narcissist or a victim of BTK too? Is her mother teaching religious messages of we must forgive your murdering father? That would be kind of creepy.
I wonder about the 15 minutes of fame. I am not against people telling their story, but I believe her message of apologizing to her father, is very toxic indeed. I do see her as a product of the messages given in our abuser enabling culture. Just look how the Catholic church and other churches, decry victims of various abuses and preach endless "forgiveness" for sex abusers and others with no consciences.
Hi Peep, I also felt sad when I saw she forgave and apologized to her evil father. I do wonder why churches and priests don't warn people more about evil people who hide behind masks and positions of influence and power. They need to warn children too, the most vulnerable . I just read the Pope s letter called "to the people of God" I am not religious but I was raised Catholic and was taught by nuns. I noticed in the letter he did not outright say that this sexual abuse of children by Catholic priests was disgusting, evil, an abomination and unacceptable. He wrote we should forgive our sins and other people's sins. He did say that the Catholic Church sinned because they suppressed victims. He did talk about moving forward, and protecting children. I was trying to read between the lines and get to the point of the letter. I think he should have expressed more outrage, and accountability if the priests. He should have explained how down right evil the abusers and accomplises were who committed these crimes, and that they were going to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. I am not Catholic because I see so much hypocrisy in the religion, even though I know the religion well. The Vatican is responsible for much evil across history. It is time for them to admit what they have done and and maby the religion would have a chance. Thanks for the great blog entry Peep
ReplyDeleteMG
HI MG, I went to go see that letter here:
Deletehttps://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2018-08/pope-francis-letter-people-of-god-sexual-abuse.html
I noticed like you, the omissions, in not saying the sexual abuse of children is evil or disgusting etc. I also noticed speech of "solidarity" and "coming together" [with child abusing sociopaths?]
He also tells the community as a whole to repent and fast, [instead of removing conscienceless child/teen rapists?]
"Likewise, penance and prayer will help us to open our eyes and our hearts to other people’s sufferings and to overcome the thirst for power and possessions that are so often the root of those evils. May fasting and prayer open our ears to the hushed pain felt by children, young people and the disabled."
He wrote the above and I notice the very nature of evil [such as in child rape and severe child/teen abuse, is ignored and NOT called out] The community is scapegoated for their raping priests. I saw little outrage too. One thing they can't admit that their system that demands celibacy is bringing in the disordered people and the sociopathic. I wonder too why the evil is papered over and it's like the entire community is blamed for the crimes of these men, he speaks of elitism but it's not desire for money turning men to sexual perverts and abusers. I considered the Vatican the 'whore of Babylon" while I was a fundamentalist Christian, I can't say my opinion of them is higher now. I do often ask WHY do people stay as so much evil is exposed, it is hypocritical to the max. I am ex-Catholic too as you know, and my family remains very Catholic even after all this. Remember how in 2002, they exposed all these crimes and now its 2019 and even after all THAT, they did not change your ways. His letter seems to coddle/downplay the abusers and their actions, and blame the community and shame them instead. Just like this article where a daughter of a serial killer is telling her dark hearted father, "sorry". We know that evil abusers unload their abuse on others, holding the community responsible or chosen scapegoats, often they are not held accountable. Our justice system at least makes the attempt, but think about in the Pope's case, how many of these men who should have spent years in jail, are all scott-free, never being held accountable. I wonder how many "guilty" Catholics took the advice to fast and pray over their perverted priests? Thanks MG.
typo--your should be their in the above.
ReplyDeleteHi Peep, those are very accurate observations of his letter. It's almost as if the Pope is telling on himself in the way narcs tend to. And that's the way you find out the actual truth. The evil continues to hide behind power and confusion and operate it's horrible deeds. While the scapegoats and followers are told to fast, and pray for the abusers. Similar to the BTKs daughter. It is crazy. If I hadn't learned about Malignant narcissists I would be confused too. Thankfully this knowledge gives us clarity and some freedom
ReplyDeleteMG
Thanks MG, I agree he is telling on himself. It makes me sick that everyone else is told to pray and fast, as if they are the guilty ones for these crimes. Yes it is similar to BTK's daughter.
DeleteReally, peep?? You write about hating to be judged for 'what you look like' and here you are judging someone you do not know for a personal decision she made.
ReplyDeleteThis story, and it's a horrificly awful one, is NOT ABOUT YOU. It's not even CLOSE to being compared to your childhood. Therefore, how can you decide for this young lady what to forgive or what not to forgive?
I'm surprised at your bitter post. This poor woman has been through enough and now she's being judged for her own personal choices? Choices that we will (THANKFULLY) never understand due to the severity of her experience. It's just not even in the same ball park as your experience. Come on. You're better than this.
"CHOICES" or Pressure? I don't wish her any ill will, I hate that she has been lied to and pressured by society to "forgive" and make way for a murdering sociopathic father. Have you read anything about BTK? Do you know the depths of depravity this guy sunk to? This isn't some guy who just shot a clerk in a robbery in the heat of the moment, this guy TORTURED people. I am NOT JUDGING her, I want her free, but she's stuck in a sick twisted dance with one of the most evil people on the planet because like so many she's been programmed that FAMILY is EVERYTHING.
DeleteDepraved murderers and rapists have way more support and love from their families than I ever did or ever will.
ReplyDeleteTo save my life I had to, well, was forced to, detach from my family of origin. I rarely tell anyone the details because they are so judgmental and truly useless. It's too hurtful - Who needs it? But I do find myself very alone while I see entire families flock to the aid of genuine criminals. Unless you've been through nightmare family you don't really know, so the rest of you with your demands for forgiveness - STF up.
Forgiving my parents and siblings nearly got me killed. I was attacked by my psycho younger brother who is 6 feet 4 inches tall. His job was to shut me up even though he himself had been sexually abused by family members.
According to my narcissistic mother the worst possible thing, the crime that I've committed is to walk away and survive my family of origin, their violence, financial manipulation and with holding, emotional torture, sexual abuse, incest, rape and family lies/myths about me - all a smoke screen to keep any one in our family from sitting down and talking about what happened, and what was done to all of us.
The general public wants survivors to shut up and go away. It's so inconvenient to hear about pain and abuse.
When some one pushes that forgive or let it go nonsense it means they don't respect you or believe you. My two cents.
Thank you for your blog and please, please, please keep writing. One day you will make a book from your posts.
Thanks anon, yes the murderers and serial killers get more love and support from family then many ACONs. The above post from the person telling me I was "bitter" wondering why someone felt led to scrape and bow before a torturing serial killer, really made me wonder. Ever get the feeling the most evil people are the ones most likely to get their asses kissed?
DeleteI tell less and less people, so I agree with NOT telling people. I wrote an article long ago, that people with normal families would never understand and it's true.
http://fivehundredpoundpeeps.blogspot.com/2015/09/most-people-with-normal-families-will.html
It blows my mind too to see entire families flock to the aid, help and support of full blown criminals and even extreme ones like BTK. I had weird thoughts wondering if there were some fleeing scapegoats and others from the crazy who never would get letters of notice or forgiveness from other family members.
The "forgive" everyone people don't get it. This daughter I believe is in danger. Didn't write this. Oh in the prison cell, he's probably locked down tight enough not to physically harm her barring an escape of some sort, but psychological harm? This is a guy who squashed out life for kicks, what's going to keep him from some soul murder via letter? So the "forgive and be nice" people will tell me I am the bitter one for saying she's wasting her time and she's been programmed by false things in this society.
I am sorry to hear you got attacked by your psycho young brother. This happens to many scapegoats where there is physical threats and out and out danger. I am glad you survived. Sadly even some victims of abuse will become narcissistic themselves, and join the family team in the beat-downs and "enforcement" for compliance. I've already gotten two threats myself, mine keep theirs more subtle, because they know I would go to the cops, but I got their messages loud and clear. I could never break no contact, and haven't talked about this much, but I do believe my family easily could be violent against me. Oh the top matriarch wouldn't do it, she has plenty of enforcers. I did get thrown down, hit and jumped all the time when I was young and had to learn to fight. Remember when I wrote about surviving the touch job in Chicago, I was used to being jumped [by my own brother] who I had to fight off multiple times when I was younger. At least in this case we were equally matched, but as I got older I realized it was really sick, that I had to fight just to survive my family when I was young. Of course they didn't touch me as I grew older, but really what would stop them even now if I ever was there sans husband or in a weakened position or if they were pissed off enough? There's a reason I made a rule at a certain point I never was to be left alone by husband. I realized how his presence kept me somewhat protected. I never should have been around people I felt in danger form.
Yeah just walking away is enough to have them still go full force and not leave you alone and use "enforcers". I hope you were able to prosecute him, or have proof or ability to get some legal justice. I know this is not always possible. They will lie and silent victims that way, rally around even sometimes in worse scenarios lying to law enforcement. etc.
Yes the general public wants survivors to shut up. "Be nice and play nice" even with the most evil like BTK. I will be posting about something that happened to me recently where a support board online told victims not to use words like "narcissistic" or "toxic".
I agree about people who push that forgive or let it go crap. Thanks regarding the kind words about my writing. I have considered a book, at times.
Duh. You think I'd comment on something I knew nothing about? I probably know more than you do about the sick shit that monster did.
ReplyDeleteThe thing is, you DON'T KNOW she was "lied to or pressured by society"! You. Don't. Know. You rant on here about your ex family not 'knowing' the true *you*, or not accepting the true *you*. Yet you are ASSUMING you 'know' what this woman has been thru.
May I repeat that her childhood is not in ANY way comparable to yours? That her reasons for 'forgiving' are beyond our comprehension (thank the gods) because we've NEVER had to deal with anything as sick and twisted as this.
Personally, I find religion a huge fairy tale. But if this lovely young lady finds comfort in that, more power to her. She's ridding herself of all the hurt, anger and bitterness. AND THAT'S A HEALTHY THING! Why would you want to (or even question) her reasoning?? Would you not like to rid yourself of all the hurt, anger and bitterness you (still!) hold?
Allow this young woman (who sounds very bright and not at all 'pressured') to live her life in peace.
Simply because you cannot find it in you to 'forgive', does not mean EVERYONE must live YOUR way.
In fact, living the way you do, with the near constant complaining and re-hashing of decades old resentments, is really unhealthy, Peep. You sometimes write that you've finally accepted things - and then go right back to the constant complaining and victim thing.
This woman is NOT a victim because she CHOOSES not to be! Let her be free from this and enjoy what life she has left! Are you jealous of her? Is that why?
Have you heard of 'navel gazing'? I feel like you do that in very unhealthy amounts. Kind of narcissistic, isn't it? Making everything about YOU?
Hey, just something to think about. I'm an unbiased opinion and pretty sure you will somehow make a conspiracy theory that I'm one of your mother's friends or something. Nope. Just really surprised you criticize a woman that you in NO WAY can identify with. Compare her life to yours. Count your freakin' blessings. Sorry, losing patience with your near constant me me me-ing.
We've ALL had a rough life in some way. Some more than others. But you are still alive, have a loving husband, live independently and appear to have a nice church community around you. Concentrate on THAT.
Piss off, you don't like this blog, don't read it. Anyhow the whole point of this article WHOOSHED over your narcissistic head. You took it as an attack on the woman when it was not, I was commenting on an aspect of society where it tells people to forgive even the most depraved. But I know some are incapable of understanding or even thinking about deeper ideas in their narcissistic black and white world of "winners" and "losers". Oh I avoid people like you who want the world to be nothing but uncomplaining drones, keeping sweet for your bitchy selves. I've been busy with life, so have been posting less, but I wonder how happy your life is when you spend it coming to yell at ACONS for not writing what you want. Maybe you are a friend of my family, or just an average troll whose to know? I always find it funny how narcissists will go on about how everyone's had a rough life, and then bitch about anyone talking about anything besides kissing their butts.
DeleteHey, anonymous with the family you had to detach from?
ReplyDeleteLook up the Fred Phelps family and then find Nate Phelps. He was beaten multiple times nearly to death. but now? He's the sweetest, kindest, non-judgemental man I've ever known.
So for y'all to go on and on about your OMG-bad-families, for literal YEARS, is only allowing THEM to win. They wanted to tear you down, they did, and you continue to allow them to. Why? Is the payoff too good? Meaning the attention and sympathy you get from others that you tell?
Why is it that some can seem to overcome bad childhoods, I mean REALLY bad, VIOLENTLY abusive childhoods, and yet others continue to wallow? You obviously aren't happy. So why live this way?
Yes, I've had my life on the 'hard' setting too. But fuck if I'm going to allow them to destroy the REST of my life, too!
This will not be posted or I'll be called a flying monkey or whatever term is 'en vogue' right now. Time to grow up, people.
What are you doing now but Wallowing and making enemies online by being a bitch?
DeleteYou can't be a happy person.
Stop telling people what to write about or think about or feel. It sucks and it makes you a horrible person.
Oh you're not a flying monkey, just another narcissist.
Hi Peeps, no, I wasn't able to do anything but survive. Because my brother had a lot of protection from various people in multiple places.It was orchestrated by our mother - a psycho pathological narcissist, a very twisted sick person. Of course, to hear her story, I"m THE ONLY problem in an otherwise Hallmark Card special.
ReplyDeleteShe didn't care that she was destroying our family by manipulating our relationships. Yes, I agree, I think some of my siblings are narcissists and very emotionally damaged. Maybe their spouses and children are too.
The violence is always in the background, waiting to percolate. I must be shut up at all costs.
Here's the thing, I"m older and boy does this family stuff get me weary.
so yeah this is important because I have received invites to one of the brothers house in a far away place and another brother wants to meet me with his wife and kids. This wife trashed me to my parents when I had only just met her. She didn't know I was on the stairs behind her. Or maybe sister in law did and planned an altercation? They had the gall to send me an invite to our mother's birthday party deep in the country last year. What planet are they on? Those from normal families might gasp at my reluctance and refusal to attend, but then, they don't know my family and the lengths it goes to keep the family secrets.
There's a women's writing conference coming up VERY SOON , you would just have to get yourself there. Do you have a private email that I can communicate with you? or can I send my email as long as you don't publish it. I'll do a test to see if this post is approved right away. If not I'll just send my email and you can not publish it. PLEASE get in touch.
I am glad you survived and understand sometimes a person just has to get away and survive. You are right others may have engineered things or set things up. Keep yourself safe and don't accept their invitations. I will write you soon about the writing conference, thanks :)
DeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDelete"Do not look for healing at the feet of those who broke you" - Rupi Kaur.
ReplyDeleteBTK's daughter makes me reflect on how hardwired we are, as children, to ameliorate a narc parent/s terrifying acting out, as if it's our fault and responsibility to "fix it." Or is it bearing the blame of being unable to reason with them - ("Who do I have to become for you to respect me enough to listen? is too painful for a child (of any age) so it's "I'm sorry, Daddy!") so you not "being that person" is internalized as moral failing, as you're unable to make your family a happy one. Throw in religion, ("Make me an instrument of thy peace" "Well, done - good and faithful servant," " stick in my mind) and we line up as sacrificial lambs. "And a little child shall lead them." is emblematic for heaven on earth but it doesn't mean the burden of saving a cluster*uck family is ordained to rest on a child' shoulders! I did the "unforgivable" a few weeks ago. My narc sister sent me her framed photo of our deceased dad, perhaps tossed like a hot potato, something she didn't want, that I didn't know existed or asked for. I was conflicted for years with this unwanted memory. For awhile I displayed it, to make peace with shared DNA. Then stored it. Finally ripped it up and threw it out the pieces, as I had been discarded. Do I forgive him, am I sorry I did this? Maybe - but a clean slate for what's left of my life is more important.
Returning to Rupi Kaur's quote, don't beseech, agonize, apologize, attempt to establish some shared moral reasoning. WALK AWAY - your life is waiting.
Peep, any "support" board that censors its members from the jump is just asking to be exposed!However, "an occasional wanderer" might feel right at home there. LOL
That's a good quote thanks. I agree, children of narcs and sociopaths are trained to take up for the parent's decisions and wrong doings. They try to bear the blame and fix things. Yes ACONs are trained to run to apologize to make nice, even as the narcs or sociopaths do the worse. Yes religion worsens all this, telling people to be ever sacrificing.
DeleteI can understand you getting rid of the picture, everytime you went into your storage even if it was put away, it would bring back the bad memories. So totally understand.
Yeah she never will find healing, the path she is on. Sadly too many ACONs take that path hoping that if they do or say the right thing or show enough love or say sorry enough, that the narcopath will change, and that will never happen.
It sickened me when I saw an admin of an ACON board tell ACONS not to even use the term "narcissist" because it was a label. Talk about knocking all tools out of people's hands even to discuss what they were dealing with. Yeah it was censorship city from the go. yeah wanderer would be at home there, narcissists love censorship and silencing people.
Thank you, Peep! If I may add a final comment, your understanding that "...it would bring back the bad memories" clarified that it would also bring back questions that will never be answered! Will any of us ever be able to "untangle the skein of f**kedupness"? LOL Is it possible to eventually understand and forgive or have I been in a trance, second guessing the lives, lies and ulterior motives of other people (aka FOO) from 50 years back, while everyone else has gone on to lead real lives? On bad days, I feel like I've been trapped in this loop forever, that never should have been my job! LOL Well, no time like the present to resume the great adventure, a bit wiser. I hope somewhere Truth, Beauty and Goodness sorts it all out - the mysteries such as parents who murder outright or "simply" eviscerate the hearts and strangle the potential of their children. Thanking the gods for refuge of art, music and genuine loved ones! Keep using those wonderful words, like "narcissist", Peep! OXO
ReplyDeleteI am neither associated with your family nor religious. But I do work in mental health and know that any good therapist would advocate forgiveness in even the most horrific situations simply for oneself. Forgiveness isn’t for the person who’s hurt us; it’s for us. Would it be that hard to even consider that this woman is doing this because it brings her peace? I think it’s presumptive to assume we know her motivations. Instead of getting immediately defensive of your stance, consider a possible alternative viewpoint. That’s what fosters growth.
ReplyDeleteI don't agree. I agree with the concept of staying away from toxic people and trying to rebuild a life. Revenge is a path to destruction as well. However forgiving people who have no conscience is a sure way to be set up again to be hurt. In this case, she does have contact with her serial killer father too. I find it interesting how you think it is on the victims of abuse to forgive, rather then the abusers to repent and most never will. In fact I had my life affected very negative with therapists who followed the "forgive and reconcile" mode and I have written about it. She will have no peace letting a high level murderous psychopath still in her life.
Deletehttp://fivehundredpoundpeeps.blogspot.com/2015/07/forgiving-malignant-narcissist-is-like.html
Note I wrote this article while still a Christian, I no longer am a Christian.
Sadly I don't doubt that like me, this daughter was in many a therapist office being preached at to forgive, it was probably repeated in her churches.
I don't believe forgiveness is for us either. They told me that but it was nothing but a hammer of guilt and shame. I plan to stay away from my abusers the rest of my life. As time passes they go on to whatever they are going to go on. I have found positive people in my life to be with. Forgiving someone who has no plan or chance of change, and you will see in the article I linked to, I did forgive, is just a way to get oneself hurt, because it brings denial about what these people really are.
Don’t recall saying it was on only one person to forgive and that the other never has to repent. We have no idea whether her father is repenting or not, or whether he will with his dying breath. She can’t control what he does or doesn’t do, only what she does. I think it’s within everyone’s own right and decision as to what’s best for their situation. There is lots of gray area here. People can forgive and move on and still keep someone out of their lives; or they can forgive and let them back in but with solid boundaries; or they can not forgive; or many other possible scenarios. To have such black and white thinking about such an intense and nuanced situation would seem to be a disservice to oneself. But, everyone makes their own choices. Yours is what you say brings you peace, and she says hers brings her peace. To just say she’s wrong for how she feels is the same as someone saying you’re wrong for how you feel. Although, to be fair, this has been studied and those results do tend to favor forgiveness.
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