From the Girl With the Curly Hair:
Oh my goodness yes. There are Aspie friendly NTs who like deep conversation but I often find myself thinking of some neurotypicals how is all that shallow small talk enough for them? Maybe they get fulfillment off the body gestures and other nuances as one commenter brought up. Maybe all the reading between the lines does it for them? I am not sure. I know with my family, my desire for deep conservation was a totally unmet need except for with the "Aunt That Loved Me". I made them angry just being who I was, this worsened of course by their narcissism. Those who want to "keep it light" are angered by me easily. I find myself frustrated and bored though with the years by these types, I learned to dampen things down a bit for social ease.
"Seems to be" is the operative phrase. Most non-autistics wouldn't consider themselves close to people due to shallow conversations.
ReplyDeleteThat said, where do you draw the line between neurotypical and non neurotypical? Is it simply ASD vs non ASD, or are you including other neurological disabilities? What about non neurological mental illnesses? Would you call someone with major depression or bipolar disorder neurotypical? This has always bothered me, because I'm not autistic but have mental illnesses, so I don't know whether or not I count as neurotypical.
Interesting question with mental illness, are the mentally ill considered neurotypical. I will look into that one more. I will say that people who have faced those challenges seem far more open to Aspies in many cases, probably because they have compassion from what they have gone through.
ReplyDeleteFrom reading your blog, I feel like you've lived with this intense contrast between your narcissistic relatives and your thoughtful Aspie self, and therefore may be associating NTs with narcissism and shallowness. While he was never diagnosed (and of course regarded anything to do with mental health as shameful) I'm pretty sure my father was both a narcissist AND an aspie! He was a shallow, selfish, greedy man who believed he was deep and intelligent and somehow uniquely deserving. He used to tell me how important it was to base relationships between people on an intellectual bond. But merely believing in intellectual bonding didn't make him 'deep'; he was a narcissist and had no depth, no compassion and no morals.
ReplyDeleteEven aside from him, I've known some very shallow people diagnosed with ASD. Like my father, some seem to THINK they they say deep things when they don't. Some of the worst, shallowest people I've known were part of an ASD group treatment/education program that a friend of mine (also with ASD - a very deep and compassionate person) was on. My friend was the only person in the program who wasn't white, and the other ASD patients heaped racist abuse on her and referred to her with racist nicknames until her family removed her from the program.
This may interest you but one of my friends theorizes my father is an Aspie. He was a computer genius and had very few friends. [If I am biologically related to anyone, that side there is more chance]. I have pondered this possibility. I have a nephew diagnosed with HFA. [high functioning autism]. I and her have had debates,"Can Aspies be narcissists?" My father definitely was. I have told her that my father seemed to function too highly getting a great job and navigating socially to be an Aspie but he was very dependent on my mother. I think in some cases Aspies can be narcissists and some even acquire other comorbs. Aspergers being a neurologically condition, it seems the entire pantheon of mental illnesses can be possibilities outside the known comorbs of OCD, anxiety, etc.
ReplyDeleteI have had this intense contrast you are right, but I do not want to make the mistake of dismissing NTs as all shallow. I have some close friends who are neurotypicals. I also have been closely bonded to church families that are all neurotypical with rare exceptions. I have dealt with some mean ASDs [human beings are so complex] but for me otherwise the Aspergers community has been a refuge. I know it can go both ways. Being Aspergers doesn't automatically make someone a better person. Morals, goodness, etc, stands alone outside of the Asperger label.
I am sorry for what your friend went through, that is horrible. I told one of my friends last night on private message, talking about this AS, NT thing, hey the first thing we should ask about anyone is "ARE THEY KIND?"
With the family too, especially with what I wrote today, about how I could not talk to them. I asked myself for years, "WHAT WAS WRONG WITH ME?".
ReplyDeleteI am sorry you had an Aspie narcissistic father. Could you email me, I would like to talk more about that issue. [my email is on the profile]