Saturday, June 8, 2013

Sister Thin, Sister Fat

My sister wants  little to do with me, which has been very painful and cost me relationships with my nieces and nephews.  I had to stand up for myself the other day, when she told me that my 830 square foot apartment which is in a safe and nice neighborhood was "not good" enough for her and two of her school aged and beyond children  to visit for more then 10 minutes. Really I just wanted an hour or two, maybe to make a meal? I haven't seen them in a couple of years. Was this too much to ask? 

Lest you all wonder what is wrong with me, to have my family disdain me so, realize I have enjoyed many close friendships, through out my life. To me my friends are my family, when I lost a few friends over the last years including Pam who was like a surrogate mother to me, that was tough. That said, I have been blessed by many kind, good and giving friends.  One part of living life to me is making sure to seek out positive and good relationships and community, that is where healing and goodness lies especially when dealing with such immense health challenges.

Even over the last week, a friend of nearly 30 years and I spent some days together. We love antiques-even if I can't afford to buy, I love to look and we made a tour of antique and thrift stores that was quite fun. With another friend, great times and conversation have been made as we make cards and talk about books. Another friend who I met online has been an extraordinary blessing to me. Many of them are like my "sisters". The way they treat me stands in stark contrast to this other stuff.

Maybe in my act of writing about some of this other "stuff", I can do better in letting it go and moving on beyond it. I hope so.  I am praying about moving beyond toxic relationships for good too, I have been on the low contact plan for some years, but that has been enough to cause me too much heartache. There comes a time when you face that some relationships are too toxic for you and that one must walk even for the sake of your own dignity and integrity.  I wanted my nieces and nephews to know me even though I only saw them once every two years or so at my mother's house, and now they are old enough. This is too much pain to carry.

The last few years have been a discovery of finding out about certain personality disorders and why I grew up in a family with no empathy, compassion and where the rejection seemed far harsher then just blamed on the weight alone. I delayed posting this article and even took down one article where I posted about her, you see I loved my sister very much when I was young, we would share our bedroom, jokes, fun and laughter--I have even old letters dating back to those times where that sister seems forever lost. Over time, I had to accept this love was not held in return especially as we grew older.

When she was young, she almost died of a very rare autoimmune condition, I was told as a child, "Take care of your sister!", and I did. My brother and I were even sent to be cared for by other relatives and I remember the very youthful memories, of hospital waiting rooms, whispers and fear. She was 3 and I was 4. One time later when she was a teen, I would save her life, as she was having an asthma attack and my callous parents told her to tough it out which she did obediently, and I screamed and begged for them to take her to a hospital and she passed out and turned blue on the way into the ER.

She would survive all this but then when I got sick, no one paid attention and no one cared. What is really creepy today is that both of us would form an opposites poster, she got hyperthyroidism and became extremely thin, around 120lbs on a 5 foot 10 body while I have dealt with severe obesity. Sister THIN and Sister FAT, like Jack Sprat and his wife. Her with pinched features and the same color hair but an extraordinarily thin body. Even when young she was far thinner then me.

Even getting her thyroid zapped with radiation didn't bring any weight back. The only problem was, why was I seen as a bad person on the opposite path for getting so sick and fat? My brother one time, told me he defended me as my weight was mocked and maligned among relatives, he told them some of what he knew I had faced.

Some of us, I suppose grow up in families where they break apart. Having the close friendships I always enjoyed from age 12 on, where a close female companion was always important to me, I did share this with my sister to around the age of 16, then everything "changed". Did my going away to college at age 17 change it all? Even before then in high school,  I knew my sister saw me as an embarrassment for being fat. You know something is wrong when your own sister pretends not to know you when you approach her in a high school hall.

My sister was the favorite child you see, favored above all the rest. I was the "scapegoat" to the personality disordered and even though I was an A and B student and my sister a C student, my parents favored her with even my brother noticing this as we grew up and the physical evidence being made manifest in my mother plastering her house with pictures of my sister, husband and her thinner children, and no pictures of me and my husband or my brother and his children which are more overweight to this day. Sure I questioned this, but it was to no avail. Everything was about presenting a perfect showroom and life to these folks. The websites that discuss growing up this way, talk about the triangulation that narcissists will do to their own children, and the broken apart relationships.

My sister while we got along into our late teens even though I knew she was the favorite child, as I fought my way through college, and then later poverty and my severe weight gain was told I was "not worthy", "not good" and that I was a "bad" person. Later I would learn how scapegoating works in dysfunctional family systems but my sister drank the Kool-Aid and threw me under the bus without hesitation. Trained to take care of her, I would not understand how weird it was to be told to do your sister's homework or school projects up to her two year degree by one's parents. So the person that exists today has no problem looking down on me, and thinking I am "not worthy" and treating me accordingly. She took to her "training" by my parents like a duck to water. Having heard some rumblings about how one niece may be like me in personality although thin and they hate this fact, fills me with worry for that niece, I pray for her.

She married an upcoming executive that would make 6 figures, at the age of 19, and never lived on her own away from home. She would never face crime, the rented room life with milk crates, jobs like a residential counselor heavy with responsibility but low on pay. Things turned especially when my mother told her not to let me be in her wedding, that my then size 22 body at 6 feet tall, would "ruin" the pictures and I was "too fat". I was 20-21, and she was 19. My sister went along with this. At the time I remember feeling so hated, and this is really when my health was starting to go downward. Today as I have grown into my middle years, I realize how terrible all of this was, but then being so young had no context to understand what I was facing.

Maybe when I am brave enough I will share more, but let me just say, that I know what it is to be alone in this world, at that point in life, I had not developed the close friends save for my college friends who had left and started their own lives at that point in time. Can you imagine the daily bulletins I got about being fat, an embarrassment and worse?

It was awful as as my sister got older she jumped on the narcissistic bandwagon. My mother comes first to her. In fact pleasing, appeasing and being like my mother comes first. She even wears her hair in the same exact style of my mother and seeks to dress like her, like a little Mini-Me. Personality wise there are matches too, an over-focus on appearances, no close attachments and very few emotions outside of anger. One thing, trying to relate or talk things out does not work here. Any desire to meet these folks half way, discuss "feelings" is like bouncing a rubber ball off a brick wall that smacks you in the face, especially since many feelings are not even shared or related to. You either toe the line or get out. The worse to me is all the being lied to constantly.

As she grew into a upper middle class stay at home mother with 4 children, and I struggled with poverty and the rest, she seemed to gaze upon me more and more with the same disgust as my mother. Now I understand the temptations of sibling rivalry and such, and one's own sin of envy, but I have great relationships with many people who live at all economic levels, so just the fact things became this way were a disappointment. I certainly was willing to look beyond the differences from my direction.

My sister was thin, I was not. There are people I have in my life who love me even despite me being fat and my other challenges. Sadly my sister is not one of them. I do grieve this but I can't go running to the empty well anymore. I wanted the laughing fun girl who cared about me back who was a dear sister to me but I realized this was a hopeless dream.  I am happy to be me in the way, that I am glad I was able to grow into my own person. I think being a Golden Child, can form a gilded cage of its own that becomes a trap where a person only cares about appearances. At least I am free of all that. Sister Thin, Sister Fat. 


  1. I had a narcissistic parent too (my father). It's still confusing in a lot of ways even now he's dead; I don't know if I can trust my own judgement about how to characterise what the man did. I think most descriptions I've read about domestic abuse due to narcissism are about mothers rather than fathers, so I feel like I have to keep checking mentally - 'Was this okay?' 'Maybe I should have just shrugged this off?' 'Maybe that part wasn't his fault?' But it WAS and we all KNEW something was really, really fucked-up in our home.

    I found this site really useful, btw: Also this one:

  2. Your sister has far more problems with her head than you do with your weight. She doesn't deserve you. I pity her husband and children. They will never know true warmth from her as she doesn't possess the quality. Your life may be money poor, but your life is far richer than hers. God forbid she get an illness or disability which makes her fat. I wish you a lifetime of great friends.

  3. Thanks first anon. I had two of them, they were exactly alike in personality, cold, no empathy. My father is now deceased. I feel for anyone who has to face a narcissistic father too. I had those years of questioning especially when younger too, but as I grew older, and thought how insane it all was. Its true they do focus on mothers more, but I think with fathers, you get more of the overt rages, rather then backstabbing stuff. I too asked all those questions and thought it was ME and that I was a "BAD DAUGHTER" for many years, 'there must be something wrong with you because your parents do not love you", I think all ACONs [adult children of narcissists] go through that. I'll pray for you too. Thanks for the links.

  4. Thanks second anon,

    I believe I could have been a very good sister for someone, I do have close friends who are far more sisters to me. She is the one who missed out. Even if I had health problems and rest, if she really cared, I would have been there for her. I am very worried about the children, the oldest is high achieving and very sweet, and so are the rest, but as they grow older, I do not want them becoming like her, remember my sister was sweet when young too. What worries me is the middle daughter where both her and my mother are upset that she has a personality like mine--[angry about it] She actually has a will of her own. I actually want them to retain compassion and caring about other people even with the example being shown them, and have prayed for this. Too bad I have not been able to be around to be more of an influence. She really has no warmth and has become a freezing ice cube like my mother. I think even with some of my major problems, I have a "happier", "richer" life, far closer to others, friends, things I have a passion for, God of course. Thanks for wish of a lifetime of great friends. :)

  5. First anon here -

    That was my experience too - overt rages when anything wasn't going my father's way, and constant accusations that I was a bad child, and reminders that he had never wanted children. I came to regard some of the behaviours you describe - medical care not being sought when I was injured even though paying for it wasn't an issue, having to care for a younger child on a parent's behalf - as being normal, which is a huge sign that something was up.

    Thanks for telling your story. It's really uplifting to see you find the positive in all this.

  6. Hi first Anon, I am sorry you went through those things, yes I had the rages and was told I was "bad", I do know if I go NC, this will be with the ENTIRE FAMILY since the head narcissist has indoctrinated the rest to think one way about me. But better to spend time with those who really love and care. Yes mine had plenty of medical insurance, and I do ponder the serious medical neglect, I showed signs of the severe insulin resistance and PCOS VERY EARLY ON. You think when I went from size 12 to size 22, and gained 100lbs in ONE YEAR, that may have given a clue of some sort but it went beyond that. I am deaf in my right ear today, but back as a teen, I would lose hearing [would cry and never be taken to the doctor] and not know why, and it was never treated. My asthma was not treated or diagnosed until I was 18 and in college with full use of a college health center. I probably was fortunate it was mild then but it did get worse.Having to do parenting on younger siblings too is wrong. I am sorry you went through those things as well. Thanks so much for your encouragement...:)

  7. I can relate to this post so much, except I was the middle of five, and all my sisters were thin. I was a whole 10-15 pounds overweight when the abuse and scapegoating began, at age 11. Before that my sisters treated me well. At 14 I was a size 14, and not allowed to be in my oldest sister's wedding because I wasn't a size 6-8, like them, while my other sisters were in the wedding. You say "Lest you all wonder what is wrong with me, to have my family disdain me so, realize I have enjoyed many close friendships, through out my life." Yep, I was always, constantly, told by my family I wasn't good enough, would never be, unless I lost weight. So I can see why you say that, because it's hard for someone who hasn't experienced these particular family dynamics to understand. I just couldn't figure out why they thought I was so disdainful. Part of me believed I was worthy of such treatment because of my weight (if told that constantly one wonders if it's true, especially so young). Another part of me *knew* they were full of it, that I shouldn't be put in the worthless weirdo loser slot that they said; it was if they did not know me at all, or want to. I knew I was a good person, with faults, and whom they saw me as seemed foreign to the real me. Well, I have went on, but I am really sorry that you went through similar circumstances. BTW, my health has been iffy the past few years, and this stuff tends to surface when I'm under stress, which I think you mentioned somewhere (been reading your blog. Good stuff.) Trying to put all this past crap in context, went NC recently with the Queen Bee narcissist, almost so with my narcisstic, abusive father too. And I ain't that young, 50. I tried to do it before over & over, but really had no support. Now two siblings got fed up with the worst narcissist and are done, which helps. Thank you for your blog.

  8. P.S. Love the pics you find for your posts.

  9. Yes stress will bring this stuff out. In fact even my going NC was pushed by the serious kidney problems and others. I just couldn't do the long traveling--day trip, but LONG FOR ME, and put on the show around people I knew who hated and loathed me. I actually was facing acute illness, and got my last two infections due to conflict via them. The Queen actually told me, that it wasn't her fault I couldn't show up to events, so there was never any empathy for a woman who is sick enough to get house call doctors.

    I'm sorry you had two of them to deal with too like me. I will pray for you in going NC, I've been NC two months and it is NOT easy. You have to give up the dream. I am glad you have two siblings who are fed up. The two I have are in total denial, one is a GC controlled by her as I wrote above, and the other is in total submission. He was a disappointment in that I thought my walking away would have at least warranted a letter, but I made the right choice, knowing who his first loyalties go to. He didn't visit me even after I told him how sick I have been and put her first. Thanks for the encouragement regarding my blog. :)

  10. No, it doesn't take much weight at all when you're younger to get bullied. At my age now, no one says anything to women 10-15 pounds overweight, as I was when I first started getting scapegoated. Even 25, 30, 40 pounds at my age, it's fine. One sister said to me recently, "You looked so good in my wedding pictures, and dad made your life hell!" Yes, he did. This particular sister wasn't a narcissist, as my oldest sister the Queen Bee is, and allowed me in her wedding. I was a size 16 (age 16 too), and yeah, I didn't look too bad. One aunt even told me I looked so pretty. I hear you about being in shock when you see old pictures and wonder WTH?

    Yes, my father (and mom, kinda, 'cause she acted like I deserved it) encouraged the other siblings to treat me like a criminal. I can't describe the stress it caused. In my teens I got a tick in my eye from it, and I became hypervigilant, among other symptoms. Not without reason, either. I could, just for one example, come home with some weird stranger guy following me, and instead of taking it seriously, they'd say no one would follow a fatty like me! At a size 12! They constantly put me down, acted like I wasn't there, or made fun of me. I don't want to sound like "Woe is me," but I can't imagine how my own children would've fared if I treated them like that (I didn't, and they're doing very well - on their own, professional careers, stable relationships, etc).

    That is terrible about your mom telling your brother not to visit you. Good Lord! I'm sorry.

    The wedding thing... my spirit was already broken then, and my oldest sister acted so damn... entitled and smug, and my mother didn't intervene... If she did, it would be to say "Well, you DO need to lose weight." So it was just more of the same. On the way to church, my father would berate me about my weight, size 14 when he started, and make me go into church in tears. The pastor once told me I needed to "get help for my depression." Little did he know my public father was nothing like the private one. My siblings even once felt sorry for me and told him to lay off, in the car on the way to church.

    It's just really hard for someone to understand what this constant duress does to a kid, a person, if they haven't experienced it. They'll say "Well, my dad was mean to me sometimes too" or such.

    Yes, the "What is wrong with you that your parents or family rejected you?" stuff is why I don't talk about it much. And then with Queen Bee Narcissist 1000% Social Skills, but always with the goal of control of control or manipulation, calling & smearing me as "crazy" or "psychotic" if I dare speak up, it's hard. Which is why I recently went NC with her... and the things she's done to me & others over the years, oh my. Totally toxic. Married & divorced six times by age 45! I'm still on my first marriage, 30 years, and she hates that... some sister, huh, that wants my marriage to fail. She said. "He'll divorce that fatty." That was around 1985.

    Continued next post (if you can take any more, lol).

  11. Hey I like discussions here, so glad you are writing to me here. I know when I was 13-14 and being abused for being overweight, I was maybe 30lbs over, I would gain more weight from the untreated PCOS, but I wonder how much of the extreme stress and abuse helped that along. When I saw those photo albums about a year ago, sitting at mother's house {sadly I'll have no future access to them} I was horrified, the look on my face was so severely depressed and my body, I could have been ENJOYING IT SO MUCH MORE, though at the time long walks etc were still possible. But they had me all convinced I was the fattest and worse person on the planet. I never want a young girl to experience that. I remember wanting to run away from home but kept thinking suck it up for college, though that really didn't do much for me later. With two narcissists always glad handing everyone else on the front end, no one believed me. I even had a high school friend on a social website tell me your family was so great, your parents so nice. LOL Many out there do not understand how abuse works, or how some people with these personality disorders can put on an entire facade.

    Hey I can see 10-15lbs being enough for abuse. I moved from size 12 to 13/14 and it was like the world had ended and I was 5 foot 10-11 at the time. Glad your sister recognized how you looked and knew something was wrong. Thanks to relating to me being in shock seeing old pictures of myself. There were girls in my high school even dating, and such who were near my size and over it, not beaten down at all. I remember thinking at the time why is life so different for them? Now I know. I wish I could back in time and let my old self talk to my young self. LOL

  12. Yes the scapegoat stuff they will treat you like you are "evil", a "criminal". Ironically later I became the only born again Christian in the family but that caused more "division" too. Well the Bible says this will happen. I'm not going to have much in common with a 50 year old uncle that listens to Marilyn Manson and Judas Priest or people where their highest ideals are materialist ones or "winning" over others. One thing about being a Christian with a family like this, some will try to force false forgiveness but for people who will not repent, or fit the criteria of reprobation, it's better to depart. One good website for any Christians who read this is Luke 17:3 Ministries. God has helped me in figuring out what to do and in dealing with these things.

    I had the anxiety symptoms too. Those come natural when you always have to be hyper vigilant, never can relax. One thing as an adult, while I set up boundaries, I never felt safe and comfortable, around any of my family members. It sounds like you relate to those feelings too. I knew that they wouldn't believe things that happened with boys too. That is one thing fat women face.

    Wow it sounds like you had my life, the constant put-downs, being ignored, being mocked. I am glad you broke the cycle with your own children, that is where healing lies. Do protect them and warn them about your family. Tell them to stay away!

    One thing I have seen is the narcissists taking adult children away from their mothers and other relatives, telling lies, using money to bring them around, turning them against their own parents and siblings. These types have endless ways to turn other people against you and even if they don't manage it at first with time, they can and do succeed. Because of my lack of money and health and inability to visit, this gave the narcissists with bottom-less funds, the ability to be around others more, and well that is one reason I lost as far as the family goes. I had an aunt who was friendly with me turned against me in total, and they prevented our communication, no one would give me her phone number, told me she didn't want to talk to me, they made her to scared to call, etc etc. She actually threw my painting I gave her in a closet, and the others defended this. This hurt me beyond words. She told another relative, she didn't like me anymore. Some aunt huh?

    I lost an entire family that sees me lower then dirt, and well in my case while I have my husband I could not have children so that made it more painful. I am learning to adapt to a family-less life, the Bible talks about those who are set solitary in families.

    I am glad your children are doing well. Yes that stuff about telling others not to visit me is the tip of the ice berg. I was waking up to all the subtle games. Took me probably too long, but one thing that forced the going NC [by the way let them find this blog and read one day] is realizing how sick I had become and never seeing anyone come around. NEVER. I was pouring energy into relationships where the people simply did not care. Imagine being disabled and sick enough where travel is getting HARD even on good weather days--I was wracked with multiple kidney stone attacks and worse, and the days their events happen you get sick, and well all they do is close you out more. I really had no other choice to protect myself emotionally and even physically to go no contact.

  13. Sorry about how your old sister treated you. That is the saddest thing, is they teach others to treat with you disdain. Many people who are naive, and ignorant of how wicked people operate are totally suckered.

    One thing in making my NC decision I went through old photos and realized to my horror the amount of smug faces, the amount of sneers, it wasn't my imagination! One conversation with brother was the day he told me about a year ago, was that "You must like being the outcast", so even among the observers, they have shoved you in a role, a box. Going NC is the only way to refuse the positions they have put you in.

    They treat people often who have any weight problems like a non-person and in this society, I believe there is nothing worse to be. Life is hard enough for the overweight without abusive families but add them in, and it's a nightmare. I now am coming to understand my medical collapse in it's entire context.

    Yes then when you cry or are sad, often as a result of their abuse or rejection, you are treated badly for "not being able to cope", "not being able to be positive"--something this society forces on like a hammer and often for having any emotions at all. One thing that has helped me is owning my emotions and feeling what I feel and also who I have become. That is some of the biggest harm narcissistic parents will do to children and adult children is invalidating their emotions and WHO they are.

    Yes the public and private faces are VERY DIFFERENT. They put on a SHOW for outside people. That is how it works. I had a counselor describe narcissism to me before as people WEARING MASKS and lacking an inner core. Smiles, glad-handing, I would love when company came over because it was all sweetness and light then and no anger.
    With outside people, many don't have the context.

    Even counselors sometimes will not understand the depths of narcissistic personality disorder or if they are further along the spectrum, sociopathy and well, it took to my early 40s, to learn about it, and figure out what had happened to me and why and how it was being done. That said, it doesn't make it easier, the world will ask well what was wrong with you if your parents rejected you or didn't love you because the norm is that parents love their children and care about them where there is attachement between family members.

    Yes one technique is they will smear you as "crazy", "psychotic" etc, for speaking up, drawing boundaries etc. I suppose healing lies in no longer caring what they think, say or do. I was labeled black sheep long ago and it interests me to notice I am the ONLY one who has ever stood up. I am glad I managed to become my own person though I certainly am a bit tattered. LOL

    I am glad you have gone NC. Wow 6 marriages by 45, sounds like some borderline qualities tossed in there too with the narcissism or whatever else. That tells you something right there. I take it you have contact with two of the sisters and not the other narcissistic ones?

  14. Good, glad you like discussions. Some people don't.

    I don't doubt that the abuse and extreme stress could've helped your illness progress. The abuse I received was doled out in a steady drip-type fashion of humiliations, mostly (but far from solely) so that I sometimes wonder or concur that I should be able to surmount it with enough grit and determination. But I know it has contributed to some of my health problems.

    Yes, looking at the old photos is sad. Smug looks on some family members (the two narcissists) and depressed ones on three of the others (me, my one sister, & my mother).

    "they had me all convinced I was the fattest and worse person on the planet. I never want a young girl to experience that. I remember wanting to run away from home"

    Yes, yes, and yes. I really did feel like a criminal because of their treatment. I even had a cop who stopped to talk to me in a McDonald's once when I was 14 tell me that I "looked guilty." Such a self-esteem builder, experiences like that, because of my crazy family. In reality I was guilty of nothing except being a very abused kid (there was more, not sexual, but later, physical battering from my father). Silly me though, until recent years I used to buy into the pressure of seeing my oldest sister, the Narcissist Queen Bee, as being so stressed, so this, so that, and actually feel sorry (sometimes) for her. Now I know it was just another tactic from her bag of tricks, the Pity Play. Feel sorry for her because she stole all my mother's money and got away with it, that she was given two houses, numerous cars, and so much more (I got nothing)? Hmmnnn. That's another thing narcissists excel at, getting stuff. The Poor Me is one main avenue of it. And I remember mowing our 1/2 acre lawn with a push mower, emptying the grass bag every 10-15 minutes, and plotting how to run away. Afterwards, occasionally, I'd beg my father for $5 to buy some pants. I couldn't get much for that so I'd sometimes buy boy's clothes, which were cheaper. Meanwhile, Narcissist Queen Bee oldest sister would get a heap of clothes beginning of every school year.

    Yes, there were girls at my high school my size who did just fine. They didn't seem beaten down. When a guy would ask me out, which happened sometimes through my junior year (after that I gained about 50 more pounds), I would think he was joking, or setting me up. People on social media have also told me how nice my family was, specifically the two narcissists (!), and my mother, who can be very sweet, but is anti-fatness. One old HS friend told me "It was the way you carried yourself, not that you were so big." Probably true, but to go through chronic abuse and invalidation, I think they'd react similarly.

    I too, wish I could go back and talk to my younger self.

    Cont'd next post.

  15. I always like discussions, had enough days, with the "never talk about anything" crowd I suppose so most people I befriend are talkers. :p

    Yeah the abuse and extreme stress I think impacted the health, and I think ongoing money problems don't help, always used to say if I won the Lotto, a 100lbs probably would drop off without me doing anything for it or about it from the lower levels of cortisol alone. Though oddly I've had strange thoughts like if I end up homeless now, [I have people who would help in reality] I don't have to worry about them jeering at me anymore.

    The dripple drabble abuse, can be a very bad scene. You can't really relax under that. One thing I learned is one can have all the grit and determination in the world, if the abusers get others on board with their lies about you, it can be a very bad scene indeed. Even if you have a strong personality and are outspoken, they have this insidious way of leaving you voiceless despite your best efforts. Well I am speaking out now and they failed.

    Thanks for relating to the old photos. I wish I had access to all the photos she has. I have this brain thing where if I see a photo I can remember that exact day--visual memory-think Temple Grandin here, and well I wish I had them just to look at. At least I got some. Yes very smug looks and one thing that occurred to me I was in severe denial about my sister pretty late, I was getting the smug looks by mid-high school, where my mother had convinced her I was a "loser" though I had the 3.5 gpa and she had the 2.0. Not that grades are everything but you can see that discrepancy.

    So sorry they had others suffer too. In my family system the other scapegoats are NO ALLIES, they never "rebelled", due to a combination of poverty, and illness, just think Stockholm syndrome here.

    Now I wish I had run away from home. See you relate too. If the me of today went back in time, I would have disappeared at age 4 or 5 and found a place for the social workers to find me in another city and state where they never could have traced me back to my parents with no name given. LOL Hey I know foster care is bad but at least there is a little bit of a spin of the wheel there.

    Yeah that is sad about the cop. Well one thing I've read about those put into the scapegoat position, is they are conditioned to blame themselves for everything and so ERGO, they look GUILTY but they are NOT.

    No you were not guilty of anything they blamed you of, relate to the physical stuff too, that usually goes along with it, though there too, the higher functioning narcs and sociopaths know the legal line to stay below to keep themselves employed etc.

  16. Sure they train you to feel sorry for the NARCs, kind of like a martyrship thing. You yourself can be sick as a dog but if you are inconveniencing them even the littlest bit, you are a worm! They have this way of garnering sympathy from the bystanders that is awe inspiring and removing it from even the most down and out person standing by them. The Pity Plays are put in full force.

    Narcissists and the sociopaths always get their needs met. It blows my mind, how the narcs in my family never have been laid off from a job, or had a hard time finding one, or faced poverty, or faced what normal average people do in everyday life. In other words there never is any "failures" and I suppose if there are, they know how to keep them secret. The high manipulative social functioning must provide a buffer. Of course we have the socioeconomic dividing line in my family and it goes along the personality disorder dividing line too.

    The endless yard work, and chores yes that is a familiar road to the ACONs. Differences in clothes bought etc. I had an interesting time in high school living in one of the richest neighborhoods in town, but befriending the other poor kids because that is who I was dressed like.

    Yes I remember other fat girls too, ones who had confidence, and what a difference it made. They saw themselves as beautiful and competent. Some I used as an example, in terms of thinking to myself, ok I can get a career, but there were so many lessons, I just did not know due to the way I was raised. Thank goodness I was blessed with some good grades and teachers who praised me for intellectual and artistic gifts, I think without those and those cheerleaders I would have been SUNK! One early teacher I think saved me.

    Yes bad confidence and you think every boy who asks you out is doing a joke and then later you may find out that's not true, though in my case there was a lot of the "jokes" too even in college.

    So you had the "your family is so nice" thing too? Yeah I did too. All these family friends thought the narcs were great and wonderful people and they too were trained to look down on me. In 2001, I visited an old family friend and realized to my horror she thought nothing of me and even commented how my weight made it so my mother could not accept me and I deserved it. The ironic thing? She was fat too though certainly a far smaller size and I noticed the diet of cookies and processed food and shook my head.

    Sure if you are beaten down, people will avoid you. They will want to stay away from the lack of confidence, etc. etc. Even now out in public, I have to shake off the dark clouds that tell me, that "I don't fit in", or "I am unlikeable" because this is the message I got everyday from these people for years.

    A close friend and I were talking about this one day, and I told her, while I had early help by 18, I never really faced the life long ramifications of how I was treated until my early 40s.

    I guess for me, healing has lied in no longer caring what people think though I suppose some could say I wandered off the ranch a bit, LOL but I am trying to be true to myself and asking what God wants too.

    I know if only we could back and warn our younger selves. I was looking through an old journal I had and I actually wrote in it, "I am the scapegoat".


    But hey at least I found some answers, where I don't have to be put down anymore, better late then never and Thank God for my friends too.

    1. Thanks,I can relate so much. Never met anyone whose family life mirrored mine so much. Can I give you my email addy? Unless you want to continue here?

    2. Oh my, just re-read your post, and felt like you were talking about my life! So sorry for what you endured. But you're still here! And that speaks for your spirit.

  17. Thanks so much. :)

    Sure send me your email address...

    Find my email on the profile...or even here.

  18. I have no doubt that stress and abuse affect one's health. There are enough studies on it, too.

    I have thought many times that if I ever ended up homeless, I would go to a women's shelter before living with Queen Bee Narcissist, my oldest sister, who was given two houses from my parents.

    When I did live with her in my early 20's, for a short time, she gave most of my possessions, even the clothes I wore, away! This, after I had been laid off from my job.

    Money problems... I always told my kids, "If you don't have enough money to live on, you can be miserable. However, loads and loads of excess money aren't going to make you happy." I think it sunk in because none of them are materialistic. But yes, not having enough money to live at least minimally comfortably is very stressful. Been there.

    "One thing I learned is one can have all the grit and determination in the world, if the abusers get others on board with their lies about you, it can be a very bad scene indeed. Even if you have a strong personality and are outspoken, they have this insidious way of leaving you voiceless despite your best efforts."

    Yes. I can't believe how hard I tried, and tried, only to be spinning my wheels or retreating. It's a maddening situation. Glad you stayed true to yourself! I got beaten back so many times but still try. In fact, it's weird, but I think Queen Bee envies my resolve and integrity (not that I don't slip up, I SURELY do!), because she knows she's not capable of it... or for some other crazy reason. There is just no telling about a narcissist's motivations in a certain circumstance (actually I know she's a sociopath, which encompasses narcissism).

    "one thing I've read about those put into the scapegoat position, is they are conditioned to blame themselves for everything and so ERGO, they look GUILTY but they are NOT. "

    Thank you for this! Maybe I need to do some more reading. I always felt guilty because of them, and that just increased the bad treatment. I didn't know it was common for scapegoats to look guilty. What a destructive mess. :(
    Sometimes I feel I have to be careful though, because being conditioned to feel at fault can lead to over-defensiveness and a sometimes-burning-need to prove myself sane and worthy.

    The grade thing you mention - yeah! Get straight A's, the favored gets C's, and nothing is said. In fact, when I received my Bachelor's in a technical field from a well-known & respected university, no help from him, my father said, in a sarcastic tone, "Well, GOOD." None of my siblings have a degree... and I had received A's the last two years in every single class, save one. Some famous people went to my alma mater, didn't count though with my family that I did well there. After all, I was fat.

    I'm sorry you went through similar... your 3.5 grade average vs. your sister's 2.0. 3.5 is very good, congrats!

    Cont'd next post... Hey, I couldn't find your email address on your profile, but.di think I found it elsewhere, gonna email you real soon to see if it's the right one.

  19. Here is my email:

    Write me a short note, and then I can continue our discussion there, have more to say. :)

  20. I just emailed you. :)

  21. I'm the thin sister..while my story is different than yours I know that my sister and I have always been compared to each other. I hate my sisters weight. I have had to defend her against the world since we were kids. I hate hearing her complain about her health...and I'm terrified that she will die early with an unfulfilled life. I'm doubly upset that if I merely suggest that she exercise I'm the Villian. I may not have struggled with my weight but i have always exercised. It must be very hard to be constantly put down, but it's also hard to love someone and not be able to protect them. We fought.about this today. She probably won't talk to me for a while and in a way maybe that's best because I'm so tired of worrying about her health, more than she does. Any suggestions?