Churches and Me

  

It often felt this way but we can miss the people and community we left behind. 

Leaving the UU was hard, I had spent 7 years there and had some good memories. I did join a social media board for ex-Unitarian Universalists. Some of their concerns were the same as mine. Many have expressed the same heartbreak. I met one lady who left a church she was in for 25 years.

I have a lot good memories from there, and miss a lot about the church, that's the sad part of things but I guess one can remember the good people and times one had. It was an intellectually rewarding place for many years. It helped me a lot as an artist. Several members are supportive of me as an artist.  I sometimes feel bad I took my husband out of there, he still considers himself a member though an "inactive" one now. He jokes about reeling me back in but I don't give him a hard time. We did have some good years there.

They still believe in the Covid stuff and some still support the Covid vaxxes. I changed too, I held more traditionalist beliefs, and didn't support trans and/or climate change and other "woke" issues the UU did, as I wrote about on this article.. Many of the people are very nice people, I miss them, so facing facts we were walking in different directions was never easy. When I do run into them in the community, they treat me well. I still see several in other arenas like the art world.

Some may have expected me to go find another church. I talked about it. I mulled returning to the evangelical world but it got complicated. I stepped away from being a moderator on an ex-evangelical message board because of my religious confusion. Some others remained Christians after deconstruction but I wasn't sure what direction I was going to take.

While I have good memories of my first IFB church we moved away from, the second IFB church was AWFUL, we were ostracized. That place was extremely pro-Trump, pro-Zionism, and lacked community and care of many other churches. Community was far stronger in my first IFB and the UU church.  

I haven't stepped foot in a church or church service outside a Catholic Chapel to look at artwork in years. I have been back to my old UU for a few community events for an annual sale they hold. Somethings held me back from trying another church. I put years into the UU, and ENJOYED things there, so I think part of me is why get dedicated to another church only to have it all fall apart? I had the same thing happen in the inverse in two different churches. Conservative church land, I felt uncomfortable being poor and disabled, and wrote about that in the article "The Poor and Disabled in Churches. The UUs while I had huge socioeconomic differences with them, treated us far better, and they were wonderful on disability issues. The right-wing world is not that kind to the disabled. You are always seen as at "fault" and having offended God somehow to even be disabled. How would they respond to the transcribe phone? My hearing issues are a bit of a barrier.

The second IFB church loved war, and praised Trump every chance they got. The place was kind of weird, and very staid, men all wore suits to services and they never held any bible studies and/or church events like dinners unless a member of this Quiverful family had a wedding. That family dominated the church. The beliefs troubled me more and more, I didn't agree with their conservative politics and outlooks, and that's one reason I left. 

Being on X is sometimes hard, I get tired of right wingers always putting down the poor and wanting to remove all the Social Security and welfare. The same stuff I wrote about is happening all over again but worse with Trump's second term. When I left the UU over liberal political beliefs and other issues, it was like the inverse happening. The cultural wars are still destroying society. They have affected the churches. If you don't fit right or left, where do you go? Right now a person gets to choose between "woke" land, or "Maga" land, there's not much in between. I would please some liberals telling them I think Trump is a psychopath and an actor [he's already betrayed his base on wars overseas, Covid shots and many issues] and I would anger liberals telling them I do not support the trans movement, climate change efforts and more. There's got to be some people out there like me.

Maybe I am unable to conform enough for ANY church. I believe in Jesus Christ but believe the churches have skewed and changed a lot of what He taught. So I am kind of an outliner. I do see most churches as being part of the power structure of this world. Why are so many churches united for the power-brokers, even the UU lost it's hold on "freedom of conscience" to please the globalists. There were many UUs upset over the changes as I wrote about on the UU article. There are bigger agendas that guide things. The IFB and other evangelical churches always had the right wing pundits leading them by the nose in a certain direction. That Sword of the Lord newspaper was a bit of a Christian Nationalist rag. I do believe the trans movement is related to bringing forth transhumanism. The religious political right steered evangelical churches from helping the poor and defending a corrupt system. As the elite decimate what's left of the social safety net, they've gotten most of the religious right to cheer it on. We are in a spiritual battle. 

 Some churches definitely have done good in the world, but both conservative and liberal churches are used for social engineering. They are too easily steered by the elite. I told my husband the other day I wanted to buy an Ethiopian Bible to read the books of the Bible that got taken out by the Nicene Council and others. I can't afford much lately so that purchase has been delayed, but he laughed and said, "You talk and think about things I don't think most people do". 

 I studied the bible and had my bible prophecy and conspiracy blog for years. Some of the stuff I warned about on that blog has come to pass. I am not a prophet, I just combined the bible and conspiracy studies together, but obviously when I wrote about global digital ID passes in 2013, that's happening today. Picture of one of my old posts:

My worldview is different. Most people remain ignorant of the drawing dystopian net and growing totalitarianism that goes beyond the surface complaints about Trump. The left wing is participating too while pushing other agendas. I have read books on Gnosticism and alternative religious themes like Marcionitism. I'm studying the Orthodox church lately and finding it fascinating. As I wrote years ago religion is a special interest of mine. 

I've been so many religions, that I have the conclusion some got some parts wrong and others right. There's aspects of Catholicism I miss, I went to go visit this church chapel to look at artwork, and it was beautiful. The fundamentalists take the anti-art or "graven images" thing way too far. Some would be angry at me for hanging up icons in my apartment. I like nuns, monasticism and happily read Merton last year. Obviously, I take some issues with the Pope and other teachings. There's Catholics who think the Vatican went off the rails long ago. I am too Sola Scripture for that, but I think back to spiritual moments when I was young and in churches and retreats. A retreat in a monastery or convent sounds enriching. I'm reading about the Orthodox, my father grew up in an Orthodox church and converted to Roman Catholicism when he married my mother. He didn't tell us anything about it, and I was only in the church of his childhood once, I do remember there being a lot of more pictures on the wall but being a child of around 9 or 10, I just thought it was a fancier looking Catholic church. 

Culturally, the fundamentalist world was always hard. I didn't fit the life norm for the churches, and have no family history there or the lifestyle expected of a fundamentalist woman. Being childless while married marked me as a semi-fallen woman. I was married to someone who was into punk rock and who was not a fundamentalist.  Fundamentalist churches got weird about the "unequally yoked" thing. I married him before I was a Christian so technically, I was not blamed. It could get negative sometimes and they saw you as failing to "win" your husband over. The UU world had socioeconomic class issues. They were more educated which I liked though obviously I am not a "trust the experts" sort and question liberal academics and bougiecrats. They supported the arts, art and music.

 I do think fundamentalism had a negative effect on me as an artist. You always had to worry about your artwork being "godly".  I was in some severe churches, that even preached that reading fiction instead of the Bible was a sin so that was complicated. I could love literature and the arts around the UUs a bit easier. 

A Jesuit priest once on a message board during my first IFB days called me a diletante. Maybe he was right. Some have been more positive and have called me a "seeker". I said to my husband if religion is like marriage, maybe I am a commitment-phobe which is odd given I have been with him for 30 years plus. I didn't completely jibe with all the church cultures, I never was a complete "fit". My brain was always questioning and analyzing everything.  Maybe my time as a "watchwoman" put me in some strange place. Sometimes I have said to him, moving away from that first IFB was a mistake, I wouldn't have had all these religious troubles. I had a church family there. I still have contact with some 17 years later on social media but haven't gotten into detail of how severe my faith troubles got. 

              sadly these antics aren't that rare, a lot of modern evangelical churches has pastors focused on entertaining. 

When I considered looking for a church again, it was complicated. The same problems I left over are still there waiting for me.  I still struggle with what a lot of the churches believe and promote. I don't like Dominionism and Christian Nationalism. I am not pro-Christian Zionism. The Rapture is absurd to me and a false teaching. Too many use religion for control. I don't like how many mainstream Christians trash the poor or the related attitudes. Hell still troubles me but it did when I am honest with myself even in my fundamentalist days.

 When I watched videos of local services pondering choosing another church, I just got triggered over and over. One church had a Steven Furtick look alike, their minister looked like a doppelganger of that guy. The pastors in the mainstream evangelical churches all dressed alike.  They promoted a lack of individuality in their church members. Many seemed like they were narcissists and too focused on being overly charismatic. Some churches had more programs than others.

 I saw this weird sermon by a preacher claiming that God wants everyone to be rich like there wasn't one poor person in the room. More than several were emphasizing tithes. It takes a lot of money to keep and maintain those bright, and new building churches with coffee shops and meeting rooms. Things looked more polished, commercial and awful then when I used to visit more than 10-15 years ago. My old second IFB, that pastor is super old, but still at it in his mid to late 80s. His adoration cult doesn't seem to have ended. He's like my mother except he just doesn't have the worshipping family, he has a church that includes many of his family members included.  That guy's had an easy ride on this planet.  The constant manipulation and crazy backdrop of politics was still there. One church was into flag waving and weird hugging sessions and people raising their arms. Maybe they are happy there, I don't want to begrudge people but it wouldn't be for me. Another church that was a rare Covid vaxx rejecting church, sadly preached faith healing.

 One lady gave me really bad Delores Umbridge vibes and seemed to be an amalgamation of every mean church lady I had dealt with. She had a tight blue jacket on and was lecturing church members on not finishing enough tasks. There was an annoying sameness to many of the services especially among the rock music evangelical set. To my horror, most of the time I was BORED. I didn't see much to motivate me to get out of bed on Sunday morning. So I never went anywhere else and watched stuff online. I joked to my husband, "I already have visited all the churches in this town, even for religious conferences that went okay, there's nothing drawing me in". 

I realized, to go to church, I would have to hide who I was. One could let a little more of the "weirdo" flag fly in the UU. One member who later left like me, said, the UU was the home for misfits, and I agreed. We ended up there because we thought about things other people didn't. Sadly the UU changed, but there was that freedom aspect to it. I thought to myself, if I returned to an evangelical church, how honest could I be? Would I be playing a part? If they found out some of my religious explorations alone, that could be easily judged. I wasn't interested in that, being put back in that box to please others. 

Also having been in too many churches, I think "I've kind of messed this religion thing up and I should have picked one and stuck with it!" While I consider myself a "Christian", I don't know what church to go to. I am in "undecided" mode. I worried about writing this article because I know some people would ask, "How can you be undecided?" They may tell me in a condemning evangelical way that I am a waverer.  Some may throw James 1:8 at me, and tell me I am unstable. I have been told already that since I deconstructed I am already hell-bound.  I worry about this in the back of my mind. One fellow ex-evangelical told me, "You can't go back".

Some may say the guilt of fundamentalism and other stressors have impacted me. I think for now taking things slowly, praying and reading the bible and other spiritual books on my own, is the best for now. I went through enough spiritual abuse and other crazy stuff, I don't want more. Freedom is important to me, and not being back in a place where I am "controlled" or told what to think about. Maybe being an artist conflicts with fundamentalism, and religion. If your connection to God is based on honesty, who wants locked back in a spiritual prison going through motions. 

Yes I did pray to God to bring me a place or show me a place where to go. One friend, says he thinks I have gone over to Christian "mystic" land, I don't know what to think.  Things may be more complex than I can even explain here. I was reading a lot of Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky last year. 

 There is part of me that is burned out, while I had a couple good pastors, I have a negative view of others. My last UU pastor was a sincere man, but we disagreed on far too much, especially about Covid, it is weird how Covid almost drew these strange religious lines. I think Covid probably led to a far more church departures than many people even suspect. It upended my world views. For me it did bring forth the very fact there is truly a battle between good and evil and that this world truly is ruled by psychopaths up to no good. Sadly many pastors I encountered seemed disingenuous, like oily used car salesmen. I struggled with negative views of pastors and often had uncharitable thoughts about narcissists. I know people have to make a living but maybe the religious grift and pressures take over. You always are on show and have to remain interesting and kind of non-offensive all at the same time to get enough butts in seats. It doesn't take some personalities to a good place.

 I also fear being "corrected" again like a child by more well-heeled church women or told to live in "shame" or going back to that place that is mixed in with narcissistic abuse of being told I am "never enough". You reach an age where you get tired of new Mommies and Daddies, lecturing you about living right and making false promises about life.  I just didn't want it. I know Christians who have been rebuked by pastors or put under church discipline. The last set of UUs may have spoiled me a bit with their interactive services, where lay people had a giant role to play in sharing their ideas. I used to think why don't other churches do this? That's one thing they did WELL. Listening to one guy pontificate for hours, just sounded well, boring, and useless. I worried about being too arrogant, but there was a few times I thought of many evangelical pastors, "What does some guy who can't even discern the evils of Covid or who never questions the system have to teach me?"  Also why should he hold authority over me? I question the very concept of pastors which would take a whole other religious based post.

A lot of services just seemed dumbed down with the same recycled repeated bible stories and no in-depth teachings. I watch some religious videos online of some system questioning pastors, I may not agree with everything but at least it is interesting. I thought of finding a church to focus on serving others, one with a high penchant for the poor, but given my health problems, that didn't pan out either. When we thought we were going to move, I had my eye on this one church for the poor but we didn't move there. 

Some months ago, I decided to watch local services, many churches have them, and see if there is any place that stands out. It was very hard, I felt triggered. I thought "What kind of Christian are you who refuses to go to church?" I knew solitude and lack of a church family didn't affect the faith in the first place in any positive ways and played a role in my deconversion. You can see all my old deconversion articles on this blog. One evangelical friend told me I was "sinning" to be outside of a church. What was ironic is her church seemed semi-decent, her pastor rejected both political parties, and they were open and welcoming to the poor but her church is just too far from where I live. I have watched some of those services. I didn't know how to tell her, I've already visited most of the churches in this town or been in them" I said, "There's just nowhere to go to church around here!"

 There's issues I still think about [see that Theramin trees channel] as to why I struggled in the evangelical world.  His warnings about abuse, manipulation and other techniques people use to get power over others, still hold truth. I still don't want a "mean" God.  There's a lot of people who say they speak for God but I don't think they do.  There's thousands of Elmer Gantry's out there. I think reading Russian literature oddly saved the vestiges of faith there were and the whole Covid thing told me, we really are in a battle between good and evil in this world. 

Here is my list of churches and religions I have been in. "I've tried every religion but Mormonism, and Jehovah Witness."

Three-four Catholic churches as a child, 

I moved a lot as a kid as you all know. We also visited a Latin Mass church that was in a downtown metro city. I was in endless retreats, basilicas, convents etc. as a kid. My upbringing was more religious than most. The church I was in while school aged, had a giant impact on my life. Remember I was educated by nuns in full habit. This was the church we lived across the street from that had a rectory and convent full of my full-habit teachers. I have positive memories of that church though a few scary ones with some strict teachers. 

First Unitarian Universalist church. 

I joined this church while in college. We had a "rebel" pastor, I still like that guy, he even questioned 9-11 later and warned about the bad path the UU church was on going into woke/globalist/neoliberal philosophies. I had good memories of this church though my work hours often interfered with my participation.

I was in a UU fellowship for a very short time while living at home with my parents, they were attempting to form a UU fellowship in a town I worked in, but it didn't work out. I'm not going to count it as it was only a very short time. 

Second Unitarian Universalist church

This was my church after a move to Chicago. This is the one I was married in and I took a lot of classes there and participated in a lot of activities. I had fond memories of the two ministers [it was a co-ministership]. One married us. I used to visit another Unitarian Universalist church on occasion that was in another part of the city. 

Back in the Catholic Church

We moved to the very rural town, it was hundreds of miles from any UU church, the UU simply didn't exist there. I would go to a local Catholic church for around 2 years and even took RCIA to return to Catholicism but didn't complete it. The people in this church were nice, I was friends with two ladies that were strong volunteers for the church. I did an ecumenical bible study there, that had people of multiple denominations in the group and taught art with a support person since I was disabled to some adults and kids for a short time as a volunteer gig [a couple hours a week]

My First Evangelical/Christian Fundamentalist church.

 I was "born again", "witnessed" to by some other evangelical Christians in the Catholic Bible study. I found my First IFB church. My life in this church was very positive, there were a few things I did not agree with such as when my pastor supported Bush and they rebuked me for war protesting with "non-believers", but overall this church treated us very well. I was in there for some years. 

 I still have contact on social media with this church. They were a working class church, and we had preppers and others. They had an in church food pantry and helped homeless people. My husband was treated well though he never converted in.. This church was a fundamentalist church, and many would see it as strict. It was an independent fundamentalist baptist church. Yes I know, my being on the extreme ends of the religious spectrum IFB vs UU is pretty unusual. Churches were seen as self regulating, no authoritarian church bodies, I liked that part. My church did preach against women wearing pants, many church members did not own TVs, I did due to husband. We had women's bible studies, made quilts for missionaries, had a lot of missions services, dinners, craft classes, and cooking classes. It was a small church of around 70-100 but close knit. I worked on many church things while there as my health allowed.  I visited the pastor and his wife's house for years. 

 My pastor back then while he voted Republican in earlier days, warned that economic collapse and other things were coming to America. These things have happened.  I had friends in the church who had the same world view regarding conspiracy and other things. They really had a church family.

My time in this church was so positive, they gave us a "goodbye" party when we left. My pastor there was sincere, had integrity and stood up for me at least on two occasions. I missed this church, and regretted our move that took us away. There were times in later years, I would beg husband to move back so I could be part of this church again.

One fact about this church is they closed just a couple years after I and my husband left. The town we were in had major economic problems and it affected this church. The church did re-form under the same name in a neighboring town a few years later, in a new building, the pastor had moved on. There are still a few members in that old church. 

After I moved, I struggled to find a church. Nowhere seemed a good fit. I never could replace what I had. I also changed as a person with age. 

Calvary Chapel, I found this church after I moved. It was very small though. I remember the services were kind of dull, but they fed us lunch and the conversations I had there were more interesting than the services. We were in there for a few years. The church was down to very few members, it really was a failed church plant. It would close very soon after we left. Some people in this church were Quiverful which I did not agree with. Think just like the Duggars. One guy ran a homeschool magazine and had 12 kids. Another family I befriended the daughters were part of the Stay at Home movement, I do think they later left home anyhow just from practicalities. Those girls were very nice and oddly very beautiful. One became a wedding dress model. 

Homechurching it and visiting multiple churches/religious activities/focus on a self-help group

I had some years where I did not go to church, talked to home churching people on line, and had my time with the false deliverance minister I wrote about before. The deliverance minister did not go to church except one Christian coffee shop. I did go to conferences at mainstream evangelical churches, spent a lot of time at my self-help group [it later went defunct but that was a big activity for years]. I also started going to the book club at the conservative Lutheran church. I visited several churches in the community during this time, including a few Baptist churches. At least three churches were too handicapped inaccessible for me even to get into the places. That was a big issue around here when it came to churches. One church you had to go up two flights of stairs to an upper floor sanctuary. Some churches were on the edge of dying, one church had only 6 members.

Southern Baptist 

 I attended this Southern Baptist church, that was close to my apartment, for about a year and half. I never really got that close there to anyone, though we would go to some dinners and meetings. The pastor was one of those charismatic types and the whole church revolved around him. He's still there. He always made jokes about women that bugged me, and went to Jamaica every year for a "missions trip". The politics got too heavy. Remember my husband is a Democrat.

Second IFB [independent fundamentalist baptist] church.

I've written about this place several times on here. This is the place I walked out of when they praised war with Iran. They were very Christian Zionist even as much as Calvary Chapel and preached other things I did not agree with. It was not like my good IFB church. They didn't do any outreach to the community and while we asked for help once, the response was so negative. I wrote in the Poor and disabled article in the churches in detail how this church treated us.

The congregation was far wealthier. They lived far away as mentioned above, so there was a lack of community. The whole church revolved around the pastor, I would call it a cult. One odd thing about this place is they never had meals, and you couldn't even get a cup of coffee. It felt very stingy. There was one dinner celebrating paying off the church mortgage and a church dinner for the wealthy Quiverful family with 14 kids that dominated the church. One thing that was very strange is no independent bible studies or classes were allowed, all meetings just let the pastor speak. There was no conversation or ability to meet or get to know anyone because you just listened to the pastor even at the "bible studies" and he allowed no cross-talk or questions. This place was a very negative on my Christian faith and while I am responsible for my own religious choices, I see it as big influence in leading me to deconstruct. 

Fundamentalism is wrong about a lot of stuff. That would take a whole other post on a religious board.

I would spend some more years out of church but then it was Deconstruction/Deconversion time. I was involved in the ex-evangelical world.

The Third Unitarian Universalist church. I have good memories from this place and liked many of the members. I wrote two other articles about my decision to leave. Some other UUs have talked to me about being conflicted over leaving, so I know this is a complex matter. When I left my UU, I was not the only member who left, there were a few others who were troubled by the changes too. I was on my own with Covid but others were concerned about the changing politics, promotion of trans and other concerns I discussed in these articles.

The Unitarian Universalist Church Controversy: When Your Church Goes So Woke You Can't Bear It.

Leaving Another Church: My Departure from the Unitarian Universalist Church

Now you can see why religion and church got complicated for me. There were many positives in life from my involvements. I volunteered with churches, served on some committees. One thing to remember is the backdrop of my health problems. My level of activity was always affected by that and there were times it was less. I have been housebound in certain weather since my 30s so that affected my church attendance. Some churches and this includes the last UU were very understanding and giving about my health concerns. Other churches were not. I have said this before, but I know I messed religion up, and autistics may do this, I was on this quest always to know what was true, maybe I should have focused on community first. Of course some places I had to move away from and others closed. 

 My need for a "family" and "community" was a backdrop for a lot of my church activities, and I felt I achieved that a few times while some places it was impossible. I had community in the UU for years while Covid was a cleaver that sliced and diced that, and also the first IFB. The good Catholic church, protected me to a degree during my school aged years too. 

Churches do seem to be changing. They are getting too hooked into the world system, instead of being independent congregations following every trend and national media offering. Why did so many churches follow the Covid lies so willingly and it wasn't just the UUs, but most of the others? I figured out it was even rare among Christian ones for the pastors to question Covid or the Covid vaxxes. Sometimes I think pastors get so used to 'selling' their churches, they forget about integrity and thinking things out. That remains an issue for me now, that I want a church and pastor that is discerning enough to at least question some of it. I know there are Catholics, Orthodox and members of other denominations who questioned Covid and Covid vaxxes and that something was wrong.

Too many churches became businesses first. This definitely happened in the megachurch world. There are some saying that Joel Osteen and other megachurches are going out of business. I am not surprised. I do not think the prosperity gospel is going to sell too well in the second Great Depression. My last UU church was small and not run that way, they did try to help the poor/soup kitchen. However the churches I was in before them, we were basically keeping middle class and above pastors in higher life styles than many church members. I had thoughts, "We are so poor, why are these rich pastors asking for 10 percent of our money, we never could afford it". I do think the fact the second IFB did nothing for the poor was not a good fruit. 

 I consider myself too poor for church now. It's not affordable. The UUs were nice to us even regarding our economic circumstances with the class differences so don't apply that to them, but for most of the evangelical churches around here, I find myself thinking I don't want the economic pressures or judgments that are unloaded on the poor now. I wrote about these issues before but I am of the belief most poor people are leaving churches. What other choice do they have? There does seem to be a certain required class status to be in some churches. Also the pastors who are trying to keep themselves paid and the church light bill paid, aren't so thrilled when some person with no money shows up at the door. They will say different, but I've seen how that goes. I think as Americans go into worse poverty a lot of churches not just the big megachurches from above will be going out of business. Social disconnection has affected churches too. One thing troubling many Americans is how too many churches seem to be letting poor people down. Our reality is not discussed. That's a problem. As poverty increases, I don't know if this will change. Will churches step up to do soup kitchens and programs like they did during the first Great Depression?

Sadly the churches as a whole are influenced and steered by the ruling class. We know the right wing churches have lambasted the poor for years. Even if they offer some charity, one is always told it is their failures and their fault the system has grown so oppressive. Very few pastors question the system, the ruling class, or the billionaires and trillionaires. They don't address why wealth inequality is out of control, there are bible verses that address these things too.  One thing I noticed being a poor person, is no one was honest in most churches about the hardships of life. The UU actually was more honest about this but being a very affluent church there was that distance. The Christian ones, all seemed to have a degree of prosperity gospel in most places. Too many teach that good fortune will come in this world if you do everything right. This is not true, and there are bible verses that preach contrary to this. [John 16:33] I have yet to see one pastor even address the economic collapse in the USA except the online pastor with Revelations of Jesus Christ Ministry and my first IFB pastor who spoke of it to come. 

I question a lot about the church system now. One thing I do question is why aren't there churches for the poor where the poor can share resources and help each other out? Where they go to church with each other? Jesus Christ talked about the poor and helping them all the time. Some have abandoned many core teachings.

Last month I noticed on X, all these right wing Christians trashing everyone on EBT, they talked about how they were forced to pay for other people's food. People pay far more for tech brother bail-outs and the military than the average 36 dollars a year going to welfare. Then you see the Christians who believe all government help should be done away with and everything done by churches and charities. How is that going to work when one medicine is thousands of dollars? This one Christian Nationalist guy told me, all welfare should be done away with and turned over to the churches and private charities. I said to him, "If the Christian nationalists want us dependent on charity instead of the govt, then they need to change the entire system, job placement, housing, intentional communities like the Hutterites do it, otherwise they need to shut up and face reality for what things cost". Hmm maybe Gilead does plan to do this, but let's be real as the way the system stands, everything costs way too much, and that would never work. 

I do believe the Hutterites got this the most right on economic matters. You have to remember I am in and around a lot of different churches even in my repeating needs for food pantries and other charities. We had some years we didn't need any charity but these last few have been rough. I've thought about this, most of the poor are coming in as outsiders. The government is providing the food. Some churches will add some meat, eggs and cheese but when you are on the food pantry rounds you see the same brands of food in the boxes.

The Hutterites at least share resources, employment and food. Should a church have people who are multi-millionaires in it, while others go starve? Should it have a pastor who can afford international vacations while one family can't even afford a box of macaroni and cheese for dinner? Some may say "You sound like a communist", but I don't care. The capitalism we have now is made of monopolies, it is not the small business capitalism of the past that could keep people and communities more secure. We are being ravaged by megacorporations with no loyalty to communities or even America. Is anyone noticing this? 

Did any of you read or hear about that experiment where this lady called up churches pretending to have a starving baby, and only a couple Catholic churches, a mosque and a rural church in Appalachia helped her? One thing about the Catholic church, they did treat the poor a bit better than many evangelical churches. I agree with more of their outlook on the poor. Dorothy Day is an example of a Catholic who helped the poor. A rural church with working class poor members would have more empathy. 

While I've been helped by churches, I remember being desperate and calling churches and being turned down years ago. It actually happened in Chicago. There was no one to help. Some people think there is more help out there than there is. They say things like there are churches and charities to help the poor, why don't those poor turn to them? I wrote about how there is far less help than you think there is in the Social Services world. Since I wrote this article, the disabled friend who applied for help got turned down. She was turned down and told she was not disabled enough for any help. I felt sad about this. People ask for help and always seemed turned down nowadays. 

 One thing to remember now as this country goes more economically desperate, a lot of places are closing up shop. I expect to see starving and more homeless people in the streets of America soon. Where are the churches? How many are admitting it's even happening? Sadly for most of the evangelical ones, they've been shoveled so much crap by the likes of Dave Ramsey, Trump and the religious politically right, they were more busy shouting down poor people on the internet. They believe the algorithms and shills online that claim EBT people haul in thousands of dollars of food per month. They think most of the poor are drug addicts and at fault. They support encampments for homeless people instead of real shelter.  They do not listen to Jesus Christ.

Luke 12:33: "Sell your possessions, and give to the needy. Provide yourselves with moneybags that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail."

I have noticed a scapegoating of the poor that got extreme on the right wing side of things, see how the billionaires and elite, always profit? You still see the rude ones shout "Get a job!" even as there is now millions of job lay offs. Sadly with so much of our media owned and I saw these trends expand on X, the voices of regular people have been drowned out. I definitely have been shadow banned on X, I stay there to get readers for this blog now but the place is so "controlled".  I've come to the conclusion most are shills and bots and meant to persuade people on a multitude of issues. The ones who speak freely, their accounts never grow. The ones who preach for the billionaires, get numbers in the thousands. Sadly the left wing is just as influenced, denying the extreme problems out there with the economy. The churches don't seem to be talking about it at all. I think most poor people are leaving churches. When you can't afford groceries, even 10 dollars in the church basket is a lot. 

Here's another recent shocking church moment. This one angered me. 

This homeless lady in Kalamazoo Michigan, was parking her car to sleep in a church parking lot. These people came out and told her she had to leave, I guess she came in to ask if she could stay and they were completely rude to her and would not help her. This church looked like it was in a suburban area. The mean looking female pastor videotaping her without a word and lady at the desk couldn't be colder and more rejecting. What is scary is the homeless woman is disabled and lives on SSI, and lives in her car because rent is too high, and they still wouldn't help her. They stared at her with dead eyes with no empathy. I found myself wondering why did they treat her this way?  She was seen more as a "danger" than a human being! Later the church apologized.  These things are very concerning.

Well I have shared my church experiences, some were good and some were bad. I do think churches are changing and I'm not sure its for the good. I do think when I was younger there was more of an idea of churches calling certain segments of society to account. They weren't so owned and steered by the ruling class. Politics didn't seem so important as they are now. Teachings like "love thy neighbor" were important and I learned many of these things in the Catholic church growing up. Things seemed "nicer". Things seemed more free, while churches always had the grifters and problems, you get worried when there's growing coldness and where church as a business seems to have grown.

 Why didn't more of them question what happened during Covid? That bugs me. Are they more owned and ruled by the ruling class or is that just a factor that grew with technology? Things were different in the days when church was part of the community and people spent their lives in a close knit community church they attended for their entire life. I don't know there has been a lot of changes in religion during my life time, I saw it in the Catholic, evangelical and UU church. Maybe some of us don't fit into church culture because there is a certain cohesion expected, that is sometimes hard for the exploring/seeker types to adhere to? I'm not sure. Well, here are my thoughts today about church and my experiences in them. Share your own experiences here. 

No More FireFlies

[source]

If you are paying attention at all and not a Trumpster that denies climate change, the earth is in a lot of trouble....

Some scientists want to shade the sun to cool down the earth. Reading this, I imagined all of  us sitting in a cold dark blizzard saying "Someone screwed up!". Have you learned about the sixth extinction? Scientists are warning about insects and other animal life dying off.  We are screwed, I am old, I at least won't see worse of it. Sometimes I think it's good some of us never had children. Who wants to bring a new person into a world that is collapsing on every level?  The insects are dying off.  When 75 percent of insects die off, there's a major problem.

There's some serious stuff going on. India just reported a heat wave last month, where the temperatures were in the mid 120s, don't things start cooking at just a few more? I know chicken will cook slow at 180.  Europe is experiencing an extreme heat wave this week. Where I live, June wasn't too bad, but now the heat and humidity have kicked in, it's housebound time. The New York times reported that the migration out of Guatemala is drought and heat inspired. As a kid in the 1970s, I remember being given warnings about how the planet would be in trouble and how bad things would get. Well those things are happening now.

We basically are killing off habitats of animals so they are in more danger then ever before. It's kind of messed up how humans can screw up so much. As for any would be deities and earth "creators"... Isn't it piss poor planning to design a planet with a species with the ability to destroy the whole place just trying to keep itself alive and entertained? Why are our food and energy needs wiping the place out? Why can humans make more babies then the earth can sustain? I never knew how fast humans could get pregnant until the Duggars came along, it really showed the importance of birth control. Something is wrong with that.

Many areas of the world are very crowded. China and India are approaching a billion and a half in population. Once I returned as an adult to a place I lived as a kid. It was a suburb of big metro city, but it had at least 10 times more people. The crowds were scary. Today, I live in a nearly empty fly-over state full of wilderness that is more well known for people leaving then moving here. It was shocking. Let the cold scare people away from here, overcrowded states always have the rent skyrocket!

When I was a Christian I used to get in arguments with people who told me the world was not overpopulated. It seems they simply paid no attention to the world around them. How much in denial are these people? Everywhere is far more crowded then when I was a child. 

When young, I loved the woods and while woods were limited to "parks" in the very urban city of my middle childhood, I would go out and hang there as much as possible. The peace and quiet were wonderful. Collecting rocks and leaves were ways to pass time. There seemed to be a spiritual feeling in the woods of calm and quiet, especially with no bears or wolves to worry about in that area. 

Nature is kind of closed off to me now due to disabilities. There's no walk along the lake shore or hikes in the woods. I can't walk more then a quarter of a block on a walker and even that's pushing things. Books like Walk Across America were wonderful to read, with the sights, scenes and people that Peter Jenkins met. Another book was Wild: From Lost to Found on the Pacific Crest Trail, that explored communing with nature.  Today outside of some scenic views one can see by car in my area, and a local Nature Center where I birdwatch from indoors,  most of my contact with nature is via books and nature shows on television.

One isolated positive asset of my family, was there was enough money to go on vacations, I got to see Boston, New England, and the family went out West staying at Best Westerns in a 1980 Suburban. We made it out to Utah and Colorado. I didn't know that then but this would be the most travel I would get in my life. Travel is beyond our financial means. Outside of a good friend that has taken us on day trips to neighboring large cities, travel is a foregone conclusion in our household. This means missing out on some nature scenes. I still have some photos of the trip out West with the mountain peaks and Yellowstone scenery.  There were a few camping trips in earlier childhood where we would go to a Harper's Ferry campground with a pop-up camper. I would run away and disappear into the surrounding woods and parks and go play with stranger's kids as much as possible.

 [source]

I had some time in nature as a young adult, I lived in a tent at a Girl Scout Camp which is now closed sadly, for two and half months. Some of my day was spent in the arts and crafts tent as I was hired to be the arts and crafts director, but also served as a counselor in the evenings. There was time to traipse around the woods there, which I enjoyed. I centered a lot of the crafts on nature too having the kids make plaster molds of found objects in nature and painting rocks.

When I was in the woods, in one state we lived in, one of the parks had this stream full of fish, and rocks galore surrounding this stream, and I would follow it, collecting rocks.Watching the leaves change color also invigorated me. When I was kid, teachers had us collect butterflies, leaves and rocks. I don't think kids do this anymore. One time in fourth grade, I found a giant moth, that looked like the one in the picture, and it was the star of the day at my elementary school. It helped make up for the gross out scenes of tossing insects into jars of formaldehyde and sticking pins through the middle of them. With my rock collection, I still have my child hood rock collection, it was added to my present day adult rock collection. Now the pieces of granite and marble I found, sit nestled next to geodes, fossilized wood and thunder eggs.

There were times alone in nature, I had spiritual moments, that were hard to explain to others. Later Christians would warn me against  communing with nature. Nature worshipers were supposedly "pagan" and on the hot slippery slide to hell, as they felt at "one" with the outdoors. As a young adult, I would realize my transcendental tendencies, which I later returned to brought me a lot of joy.  One thing I think happened to our world is that civilized people have lost any connection to nature. The industrialization of agriculture separated human beings from the dance of the seasons, and even growing food being mindful of the importance of nature disappeared.

A man the other day said to me, "Remember when we were kids, and you'd drive home from a trip even on a highway, and the entire windshield would be plastered with insects?" I remember, with horror, he was correct and that one simply did not see this anymore. One thing I do remember as a kid, was seeing tons of fireflies, I saw them both in Virginia and Ohio and even as a teen in my present state. Those are now gone. I see a very rare one, but it's rare. I know they don't exist in the numbers they did when I was young.

One thing I learned about myself, is living in huge crowded cities, drove me nuts. The noise of other human beings even with my hearing problems wore me out. I felt crowded all the time and over-stimulated. One thing that helped me mentally was moving to the rural town in the middle of nowhere. I still miss the quiet there, though I obviously do not miss the extreme religiosity, politics and lack of resources. There we lived near a huge park, and would go to it weekly but the place was so rural, my apartment parking lot was constantly full of deer. We once encountered a giant snapping turtle three feet across, that had wondered from a neighboring lake down the street from the huge park, and got it out of the middle of the road. Too bad, there was no camera to take it's picture.


Where I live now is far more crowded but one can get to some woods within 5 miles driving north. There's country and farms, only a few miles south of me. This is considered a rural area just not as rural and remote as where I once lived. Huge cities are not for me. The noise, the smog in the air, the crowds all influenced me badly. There were times in Chicago I thought I would lose my mind, as the cacophony around me never ceased. Everything seemed complicated too, like there was too many choices and everything was too far away.

They paved over everything in my cities I returned to as an adult that I lived in as a child, though a few parks were still intact. I even remember my present smaller town from the 1990s, and it grew bigger and sprawled out with more parking lots, almost to the point I didn't recognize anything when we moved here. My husband was born here and grew up here.  During my lifetime, seeing so many beautiful areas turned into subdivisions, parking lots, office parks, malls and later strip malls which are now emptying around here, was disappointing and heart wrenching. In one city I lived in as a child, they shredded some woods I explored to put a 6 lane highway through the place.

With overpopulation, even when I was a fundamentalist Christian, I adamantly disagreed with then fellow Christians about overpopulation. The world is a lot more crowded then when I was a kid. There was far more people. Even remembering the world population was 6 billion when I was a teenager and now had become almost 8 billion was a fact I could not ignore. I don't get Fox news watchers who deny what they see in front of their face. Back in the 1970s, overpopulation was a big deal. Now no one cares. The religionists of many religions all went nuts, and protested birth control and sensible scaling back. The Vatican preached against condoms and birth control for the third world. All these people are fools, who have ushered in more pain and suffering for our world. Here power and money, run the train. There are people on the right wing , sounding warning cries for declining population, because there may be less cannon fodder and underpaid serfs to be had. Don't think the recent attacks against reproductive rights aren't being fueled by the elite for their own agendas.

There definitely is a growing disconnect with nature. Too many think too technology is going to save the day. While we do have growing technology, the rest of society isn't catching up. Workplaces are still run like 19th century fiefdoms, there's been no evolving of authoritarian institutions for humanity to progress down a positive path. Religions say no to new economic ideas and limits on population. I don't think technology will save the day. Even climate change is such a huge issue, and our money system is so centered on enriching the few, that having scientists even have the resources to invent CO2 scrubbers that work or build enough desalination plants for water-poor regions, just isn't going to happen. One scary thing is that humanity is going to need to figure out that it is part of nature, instead of going down a destructive path that could lead to our extinction.The present path is just not sustainable.

They Do Want to Subjugate Women

The Kavenaugh debacle was rough on me and many others.  The Republicans gave a big middle finger to women nationally putting a wannabe rapist on the Supreme Court. Remember they could have chosen a man or woman who was not a would be rapist or sex abuser and didn't have all that baggage, but they wanted Mr. Patriot Act and defender of extreme presidential pardons put into that office. You know years ago moderate Republicans used to have an idea of treating women with some respect but these present day extremists and monsters don't care. So if you are a Republican woman, this article is to warn you too. They do want to subjugate women.

 It's time to wake up and smell the coffee. I woke up and realized I had been led to false ideas about feminism when I wrote the old article Not a Fan of Feminism. I realized it wasn't the feminists bringing the economic oppression but other forces in society. Here too, is where my own religious indoctrination influenced me in a negative way. I now have returned to feminist ideals.

Since Trump brought the racists out of the closet with their pointy hoods in Charlottesville, I suspect now sexism is going to increase and sexual violence is going to grow.  Rapey sociopathic frat boys and red pill woman-hating incels will now cheer!  The good ole boy club doesn't care, you are just an object to them. Reagan appointed Sandra Day O'Connor, and while Reagan had major faults bringing us false trickle down economics, at least back then conservative men at least wanted to make an appearance of respecting woman. Now that's gone with "Grab them by the Pussy" Trump leading the charge. They don't care, and they aren't pretending anymore, the gloves are off.

One thing, let's keep in mind that now the Republican and evangelical/conservative Christian world is joined at the hip. Many don't pay attention to these religious roots, but they have grown stronger ever since the Tea Party came into vogue and the Republican party moved further to the right.

The blatant disrespect of women is not by accident. Trump is their front bad boy to play cover, while they work on bringing us hardcore Dominionism and Theocracy. Few realize Kavenaugh even came out against birth control. Think about that as most focus on the possible demise of Roe Vs. Wade. I never could under pro-lifers who wanted to do away with all the birth control, but that's about oppression too. Activists are dressing in red robes and white bonnets, knowing that The Handmaid's Tale could be made into reality.

handmaid tale protesters

Many people don't know this, but in the evangelical world, biblical partriarchy is being advanced. It is a movement of it's own. I warn people how bad it is, but I am not sure many believe me. It's march was first hand to me. It's messages were preached to me from many pulpits and at Christian conferences and bible studies.  The Duggars support it and the homeschooling world but I noticed a change in all the churches I had attended and visited. This included mainstream evangelical and mainline churches, all of them were teaching that women should obey men. These ideas aren't just in the fundamentalist world. To refuse to submit as a wife definitely made you a sinner. Radical feminists were the devil's daughters.

In the IFB they had me read Fascinating Womanhood a book that said women had to submit to keep their marriages happy. I got in trouble at one women's bible study at my old IFB, saying I thought the book was nonsense and no woman could survive being a blind follower to men. Maybe they should have done me a favor and thrown me out of the church but I remember mutterings about me having an unsaved husband and "not understanding" because I was then a "babe in Christ".

These issues also came up  later at a book club in a mainline Lutheran church, we read a book called Redeeming Love. I told the other book club members, this historical fiction book taught women to submit to controlling and abusive men, and they disagreed with me. One pointed out, "we are supposed to obey men". I noticed this message in mainstream evangelical churches too, including in one conference, where they told the women there, men were to have leadership in the home and they were not to misled by feminism.

The big word was "Complementarianism" in Christian circles and it meant women were to stay within their role and obey their husbands.

Here is the Nashville Statement in favor of Complementarianism. The Nashville Statement was signed by thousands of top evangelical leaders. Notice the key word SUBMISSIVE is used within this document.

Have you ever wondered why these evangelicals focus so much on commanding everyone's bedrooms and now their personal at home lives? It's about power. They want the women to submit and not question. Power is easier to obtain when you have shamed half of the population into meek subservience and thinking that God Himself ordered it. This is why the white old boy's club--even the ones who are now into their 80s, can treat women like trash and get away with it. Some have equated God's will with the subjugation of women.

The evangelicals love power, while they claim these things are about religion and restoring the order and goodness of society, it is all about power. This is Dominator vs. Persuader Society stuff. Someone always has to be in charge and vying for power in Dominator Societies. The religion itself is about power. Thousands of Christian and religious leaders signed a document that calls directly for women to submit. This document was called The Nashville Statement.  At the link you can see who signed it. It was written by a group called The Council of Biblical Manhood and Womanhood. They are one of the groups who are the biggest promoters of biblical patriarchy and Dominionism. Lest you think this is just some "small" group of a few extremists, realize it's connections to top Republican politicians. Michele Bachmann supports it's endeavors. There are members of the Family Research Council in this group including Tony Perkins.

James Dobson as well as many other notables signed it. Some of these men are advisors to Trump and on his evangelical council. So don't dismiss this stuff as just a few religious nuts trying to lord over women in their churches, they want women lorded over nation wide. They do have the reigns of power now. This is one reason the blue wave is important and you must go vote. The evangelical Dominionists do have Catholic allies for their pursuit of religious and political power, and Kavenaugh is definitely among that number.

I left Christianity because I believe it is an authoritarian religion at it's root, but I know there are Christians who are not authoritarian in outlook, problem is these are, and they have millions supporting them who want women, and other minorities too be subjugated. The racism goes with the hatred for women.

 Kavenaugh's placement in the Supreme Court, was a dismissal of all women nation wide. A man of any integrity even if innocent would have withdrawn and not presented himself as angry and belligerent talking about "liking beer". He didn't look innocent at all to me. His facial expressions took me right back to "I am always right!" narcissistic rages. He didn't have the look of a man falsely accused either begging to get his name cleared but the arrogance of someone who plans to get their way no matter what and is used to getting it too. The gaslighting stunk up the whole nation especially when he and his friends claimed Devil's Triangle was a drinking game instead of a threesome. Anyone who has been a victim of abuse and has any degree of being "woke" to them, knew that guy was lying out his teeth.

I grew up in the upper middle class Catholic culture. Ironically some of those years were in the Washington DC area, with government worker parents. I grew up being taught too in the Catholic church that men were in charge, after all women couldn't be priests. I've seen Kavenaugh's type among many legions of drunk dead-eyed frat boys, including one who in college tried to sleep with me because I was a fat girl for a fraternity contest. That smaller guy didn't try to jump or rape me unlike others but the disrespect was there. He left after I rejected his advances.

 I was brought up with the idea men were worth far more then girls. While I drove the old family station wagon later as a teen in fly-over country, my year older brother drove a new gold Trans-Am. After all I was told he was going to be continuing the family name. I was told as a girl my main job was to be pretty, and to have babies. Because I failed on normative standards of beauty, I was treated like a boy but without all the privileges of being male because I was female. Femininity in my family was equated to being second class, and lower status. Boys were far more higher status.

When there is no appreciation or love of women in a family, abuse for women is a given. I watched my father excuse the domestic violence against his own sister. He treated me with disrespect and abuse as well. Do you want this for an entire nation? Well these sad excuses for leaders are bringing it unless people start standing up. 

Boys will be boys ethos was all around me. Because I was not a pretty thin girl and was the scapegoat, I was treated like Meg in Family Guy, where I was smacked around like a dude and had to fight. It occurred to me, even how when my brother told me to F off,  when I am 50 year old disabled woman, that really spoke more of one man fighting another man then how a brother should ever talk to a sister, fight or no fight. My brother once stopped traffic on a major highway to impress a girl. He drove his car side by side with hers, and blocked miles of traffic for a long period of time. A poorer black or even poor white kid would have seen the inside of the juvenile home, but he never did. It was a slap on the wrist and nothing else. He was never told by my parents to protect me as a brother or to treat me with any respect. He wasn't the golden child, but because he was male, his status was far higher.

Disrespect for women was paramount in my family so what I saw on the national stage was nothing new. Women's ideas were discounted. Basic respect thrown out the window. For many of us it was reliving abusive moments in our lives like when I got grabbed in the breasts at one job surrounded by male laughter about my weight, and I jammed the guy hard with my elbows ready to start punching and because I fought back, they then left me alone. And what of us who have faced sexual assault attempted or completed and other sexual abuse? This last week, with an abusive man in our faces imposed upon the nation as a JUDGE, was triggering. Narcissists don't care what people think. They don't try to resolve anything either. They just lie.

It was reliving basic disrespect, dismissal and being devalued by men for many women. There's a point in a nation where evil is reigning and we are at that time now. If you are a woman, realize these men want to subjugate women. Many of them are using religion to do it. Many of them are getting you to vote and support malignant narcissists and sociopaths. If your religion is telling you to support these men, maybe you need to rethink what you are being told.

How Bad Religion and Child Abuse Go Together

I found this on a message board, if someone knows the original source, please tell me, and I will cite it here. Childhood Religious Indoctrination often coincides with childhood abuse. This doesn't mean all religious parents are abusive, some will teach a "god of love". The less fundamentalist ones will allow some exploration and critical thinking. However often times religion and child-abuse go hand in hand!

Raised in uber-Catholicism, my religious training included a lot of fear, shame, guilt, fantasy and idealism. My uber-Catholic parents who allowed no freedom of thought, thusly prepped me for the fundamentalists.  In my case, I "rebelled" and deconverted the first time, considering atheism even by age 10, but extreme trauma, abuse and the circumstances of life drew me back into another flavor of oppressive religion.  Right now my deconversion and my no contact ACON recovery are walking hand in hand. It's strange how letting go of an abusive "God" who threatened me with hell, was only possible after letting go of a family that made my life hell on this earth.

This has given me the emotional freedom to even allow happiness to be possible. I think thoughts like: "You can be happy now." and "Enjoy your years left on this earth".  The fogs of endless guilt and shame have lifted. Love in marriage gave me a foundation too.  It's doubtful many therapists would go this deep religiously with their clients, but I believe ties to an abusive God, will keep one in the abuse matrix. In other words, you may free yourself from parental abusers, or they long ago died, but one big Kahuna remains in your head, with the pointing finger of God saying "You're bad!" 

Many of us who do leave Christianity, do arrive at the conclusion that God as presented in evangelical and conservative Christianity is another abuser who has filled the space in our heads. He becomes a stand-in for the abusive parents. Just like ACONS have to learn to avoid narcissists and abusers in day to day life, spiritual examination needs to come in too.

The spiritual does overlap the emotional. I don't believe in demons anymore in the classic sense but my parents often appeared in my dreams as "demonic". They'd show up with glowing red eyes, and always ready to do extreme physical harm to me. It's strange that they were beyond human in my dreams. This may tell of the extreme power I believed they had over me.  They'd cackle, laugh and chase after me. It's not a good sign when the Boogey-men and monsters of your dream life are your own parents and relatives.  Even when I was a staunch believer, it seemed I stood up more for myself in those dreams, more then any imagined or dreamed of deity. After no contact, my dreams were like the Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon movie mixed with James Bond films in fighting my enemies.

I have a theory about conservative and evangelical Christianity, I've talked about on a few ex-Christian, atheist and other boards. I believe Christianity itself is based on a toxic parental paradigm. While this exists in other religions, Christianity seems to go the farthest. The religions that seek God more as a divine force of goodness, either allow for the negative aspects of life to be explored or insist on God being loving instead of wrathful and punishing. Even Jews have a tradition of arguing with God. For conservative Christians, God is an abusive, controlling father who is ready to unleash the whoop-ass on you for one broken rule.  You don't dare argue. Too much of humanity remains in infancy, while basing life on "punishment" instead of growing up. What else is hell for but the ultimate grounding, with "Daddy" setting up the system doing the worse that can be thought of?

The harmful childcare practices overlap with the toxic doctrine. Hell is the ultimate punishment, but more punishments are in store with God's "chastisements" and groundings. There was this constant feeling that bad things happening meant God had displeasure with you and the opposite was true too. Most churches today teach that God directs your life and if one is living a painful and hard life, there is that undercurrent, that "you are getting what you deserve". Add in the very foundation that to enter the religion at all in the "born again" sense of things, that one must admit they are a wretched sinner who has wronged God over and over. Self esteem is not grown in this system. It is diminished.  A punishment based life is an unhappy life. Us ACONs who were scapegoats grow up and take too much responsibility, we are mired in a muck of self-blame. Those who are in a Christian religion like this get it from both sides.

Hell is used to keep many an abused child in line. One is told, if you don't obey your parents, you will go to hell!  Some churches will inform young people, if you don't believe the same way your parents do, you will go to hell. The earlier the indoctrination, the more of an effect this will have. I was warned about the hot fires of hell and never being able to escape from an early age. Even to earn Purgatory you had to be "somewhat" good and holy.

Many abusive Christian parents use religion for isolation and control. This happened to me. The most extreme ones, practice separation from the world. I was separated from other people too. I was not allowed to go to parties or visit very many other kids. I was told their parents were wicked or they "drank" or they were "not to be trusted".  I was punished for going to a friend's United Methodist church after a sleep over.

Many focus on Christian fundamentalists and homeschoolers as the only culprit, but there's other religions where religious abuse can happen. I was not allowed to date in high school even as some of my classmates married and had babies by 20 and are grandparents today. There was no junior high dances for me, and before I was beaten down, even as an Aspie, I wanted to socialize with the few friends I had. I was given severe edicts about sex, and told by the nuns and my parents both, that only whores had sex or "boyfriends" and the people who "never did it" were the most holiest of all. When it came to sex and just about everything else guilt and shame ruled.

There's young people coming out of Quiverful and Christian homeschooling families who have told horror stories about their isolation, denial of educations, physical beatings and mental abuse. With some of the most public fundamentalist families like the Duggars, they seem to take a pride in not allowing their children to grow up and keeping them obedient into adulthood. There are extreme cases like the Turpin abuse and torture of their children being exposed.

 The churches themselves teach not only isolation for the parents who aren't supposed to socialize outside of the Christian bubble, but with homeschooling and more stress "isolation" from the "wicked world". During my time within the IFB and Christian fundamentalism,  I didn't like how most of the parents parented their children, they were far too strict. I lived in a small rural town where everyone I knew, even people in other churches all homeschooled their children. The public schools in that place were on the verge of collapse. Some were already experimenting with "courtship" in the way the Duggars do it, 15 years ago. Some of the more extreme people  did believe in patriarchy and women obeying men. They believed college was a waste of time for women and that they should only marry and have babies and focus on being "modest". Fellow progressives, realize where the USA is going. There's a lot of people who support this stuff out there, and I've seen it myself and it's growing!

God is a handy tool for all abusers to abuse. All of them claim God is on their side. God was used to abuse me. I was a "wicked child", and "on the way to hell". I've discussed some of my spiritual and religious abuse here, but there was more then a few times where I was told I would go to hell directly. I listened to some Mission UK on my stereo when home from college, and was told I was a "Satanist". My grandmother after my mother called complaining about finding that UU literature in my college things and told me I would burn in hell. My never questioning GC sister who obeyed all Catholic rules and never missed mass, was the "good girl" and remained so to the day I walked away. Hell is a handy hammer for abusers to use against anyone who dares to show an independent thought. Atheists and free-thinkers online today warn young atheists, to hide their true religious feelings from parents and relatives. I believe this is good advice, but it was too late in coming for me.

God is deemed always as being "on the parent's side" in many churches, Catholic school/Christian school classrooms, and Sunday school no matter how severe the punishments or life style. If your parents beat you, it is seen as God's will and "discipline". A child is always supposed to obey. People in American society under-estimate the danger we are all in from the Republican party and religious right, it's not the religion per se itself but the authoritarianism that comes along with it.

The focus is always on obedience to authorities with obedience to God and obedience to parents. Remember even the adult Duggars are taught they are under their parents authority until marriage, and then the young married women are under the husband's authority. Obedience is supposed to be forced via punishment. The majority of Christian conservatives all support spanking. Pastors world over preach "Spare the rod, spoil the child". The Christian run "Troubled Teen" industry and reform schools have been exposed for abusive practices and totalitarian rule over young teens. Read the book "Jesus Land"

Their love of spanking by the way is connected to their "lock everyone up" legal sense, and support of the death penalty. Their God goes all out to punish, burning people in hell, and drowning millions in the Old Testament. The lack of empathy there comes from the negative example of the God they follow. Everything is about control and punishment. Submission to authority and to God comes first. They do not value freedom or independent thought. There are religious elements as to why freedom in America is dying and some people are demanding a police state.

Add in the impossible expectations. When one worships a God that in conservative Christianity that demands perfection from imperfect beings, with punishment on hand for those who don't measure up, even if a proxy is set up, this carries onto parenting practices. Many narcissistic parents who use religion to abuse are perfectionists, they don't even allow children to be children allowing for normal development, mistakes or learning. Even if churches teach "grace" from God, I saw very little of that in evidence. Appearances were focused on and being perfect. Here too, this helps fuel the never ending shame and guilt.

People are set up for fantasy and magical thinking in bad religion. In my case, due to the extreme nature of the narcissists I was under, I was punished a lot for any independent thought. Being a creative and artistic child, they worked hard to squelch that as much as possible. My mother didn't just attack me physically, but she attacked my very soul, when I would ask questions about God and life.  This would earn me usually some form of physical punishment. I was punished for not conforming. Inside I often thought thoughts that I knew were "non-acceptable" to those around me.This takes a toll on ACONS, as while we deal with our narcissistic religious ideologues, our youthful expression of ideas, and examination have no where to go. We have no positive guidance.

My mother was a rigid Catholic, who lacked all introspection. Whatever the Catholic church said, was true. Many ACONS with religious parents, are trained to shut down their critical thinking facilities, and not to trust themselves. This leaves them more prone to abusers, and false messages and being taken in by predators. I realize the decades of being shamed and blamed, and even dismissed for the first deconversion into my first 12-13 years in UUism, set me up for the later religious Kool-Aid, and that abusive deliverance minister.

 I was prone to neglect "Reality" thinking-- testing things with fact based science and rational thinking and maybe even a good dash of personal intuition. Magical religious thinking increased and that came out of being told to believe that wafer really became the flesh of Christ, and that invisible spirits [demons] hovered around my head ready to do me harm. Bad religions set a person up for failure. We are taught to shut down our rational thoughts about these religions which shuts down our reality testing when it comes to our abusers and the gaslighting. Our minds are imprisoned. The mind control of abusers is enhanced by the mind control of religion.

My doubts about religion actually began 12 years ago, when I noticed the prayers were not garnishing results, I could have deconverted with only 4-5 years invested into a false religious system instead of 16.  I was too scared to leave due to the programming and "guilt" though I left the IFB churches ahead of leaving the religion. One technique they used was telling me Satan will make one doubt. There was a built in religious "answer" to every doubt. Religion did as much as gaslighting to me as the abusive parents.

In evangelical and fundamentalist Christianity, Family and church authority are stressed. Conservative churches almost turn the family into an idol. Remember the group Focus on The Family?  Groups like that stressed severe discipline that was often physical. One's family is cited as a moral guide into adulthood even if that family is immoral. It's like one is never supposed to grow up and separate from their parents and find their own way. Church obedience was tied to family obedience. This was true in every conservative church I attended or visited. Family came first. This is one reason why singles and the childless did not fit into many conservative churches. For those of us who became estranged from our families or had to go no contact, we were shamed. The last IFB church I was in, the pastor did a sermon on how people need to "forgive" family members and go back to them. No contact, in this case would be seen as the ultimate wickedness.

The diagram is also correct about how many are denied REAL information. There is a reason that in evangelical and fundamentalist circles, education itself is being shut down. This is why they see science as a threat because science is reality. Science is making it clear that their child rearing practices are harmful and holding people back. I was told psychology was "wicked" and that secular counselors would lead me to harm. That's so another door on the way out can be closed. History was rewritten to support religious suppositions. Sex was deemed a giant evil. The internet is full of those who talk about how their sex lives were destroyed via religion. Like many young people raised in religious fundamentalism, I was taught sex was "evil" and "wrong". If I never had met my husband, my life path could have very easily ended up being life-long singleness and celibacy.

There are definitely developmental delays. Young people are held back by controlling religions. Their relationships, rational, critical thinking skills and intellectual skills are affected. They are emotionally crippled by religions based in shame and blame. Going no contact can be a growing up process making up for lost years when you were stuck in the mud of abuse and false religion. I hope more people realize how toxic religious systems negatively affect young people for life and enable abuse and abusers. 

Recovering from Bad Religion

Peep's Deconversion Articles

13 Siblings Held Captive By Abusive Parents

13 Siblings Held Captive By Abusive Parents

"A couple accused of imprisoning their 13 children in dark and filthy conditions in their Perris, California, home believed it was by God’s will that they had a large family, according to reports. The parents of David Turpin told ABC News their son and his wife Louise had so many children because “God called on them.” The couple is accused of using chains and padlocks to shackle several of their children to their beds, according to the Riverside County Sheriff’s Department."

Some of the religious narcissists and sociopathic parents are going overboard in the abuse. Authoritarian religion has paved the way for breeding as many children as possible as their parents produce them for the Army of God and turn them into trophies.

It's great one 17 year old daughter was brave enough to break away and report what was happening to her and her siblings. She told the police she feared her parents would kill her. In these Quiverful families like the Duggar family, the children are made into literal objects, you will notice they all have the same exact dresses and hair styles. What are the chances that all the girls would have the same exact hair color? They all wear that in the same style straight and parted in the middle and the boys are expected to match their father in the same horrible 1970s Prince Valiant hair style.

Narcissists often treat their own children like objects and trophies. One can tell easily even seeing the photos, that they were seen as part of the display, they were not treated as people in their own right. These parents were very religious and home-schooled the children setting up their own private school via California law. This was a fundie family that loved Disney and Elvis.

I don't support homeschooling and think it should be abolished or have very strong and strict state over-sight. There's too many abuses. Go to the website Homeschoolers Anonymous, and you can read the horror tales there, of isolation and young people with diminished futures from lacking education. A few educated parents do homeschool right with self-studies, co-opts and caring about their children but the door is far too open for abuse. The neighbors in all the news stories claim the children weren't allowed to talk to them and came out at night only like vampires. Some didn't even know of their existence.

What scared me about this story the most besides the extreme malnutrition and control, is that some of these children were adults, and they were well into their 20s. One was 29 years old! We see this like with the Duggars where their adult children like Jana and John David Duggar are 27 years old and never have lived on their own or in their own apartment and have their lives directed as much as when they were 12 years old. So some of the chained up "kids" were adults that weren't allowed to grow up or get mature adult lives. I saw the theory online that they did not allow these children to grow up and I believe it, the older adult-children look like they are severely limited and the starving has kept them away from attaining puberty.

Some tried to claim the abuse came later, and that the family "looked happy" at Disney and other tourist spots but I found that nonsense, it did not escape my attention they were all dressed the same, and in those circles "keeping sweet" is part of the formula, where the children are trained to hide all emotions and keep smiling. They look creepy like pod children and you can tell the control from their two parental sociopaths is already happening. Keeping up appearances is very important in fundamentalist Christian circles. This is why many would look at this family and ignore the skeletal limbs and awkwardness like the Elvis impersonator and think "What a happy family!".

The mother being "perplexed" when the cops arrived, she probably is one of those abusers who thought this level of parental control was needed and that she was not an abuser.  We know narcissists aren't very good at self examination or reality checks on their behavior. I would bet money of "To Train up a Child" was probably somewhere in that house.

If you google Turpin and wedding renewal on youtube, you can see videos of their wedding renewals. There we see the narcissism with the endless wedding renewals between this couple and desiring all that attention. I hope the adult children are able to get services, transitional housing and training to get jobs and lives and the other children are kept away from the relatives as well.

The aunt with her googly eyes, acting like it was normal to have all the kids hidden away from her all those years, I don't think much of her either. I hope the grandparents don't get them either:

"James and Betty Turpin said "God called on them" to have as many children as they did (referring to David and Louise). They also said the children were given "very strict home-schooling," and that the children had to memorise long passages of the Bible. Some of the children were aiming to learn it in its entirety, they said."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42701311
permalinkembedsaveparentreportgive goldreply