Wednesday, January 17, 2018

13 Siblings Held Captive By Abusive Parents

13 Siblings Held Captive By Abusive Parents

"A couple accused of imprisoning their 13 children in dark and filthy conditions in their Perris, California, home believed it was by God’s will that they had a large family, according to reports. The parents of David Turpin told ABC News their son and his wife Louise had so many children because “God called on them.” The couple is accused of using chains and padlocks to shackle several of their children to their beds, according to the Riverside County Sheriff’s Department."

Some of the religious narcissists and sociopathic parents are going overboard in the abuse. Authoritarian religion has paved the way for breeding as many children as possible as their parents produce them for the Army of God and turn them into trophies.

It's great one 17 year old daughter was brave enough to break away and report what was happening to her and her siblings. She told the police she feared her parents would kill her. In these Quiverful families like the Duggar family, the children are made into literal objects, you will notice they all have the same exact dresses and hair styles. What are the chances that all the girls would have the same exact hair color? They all wear that in the same style straight and parted in the middle and the boys are expected to match their father in the same horrible 1970s Prince Valiant hair style.

Narcissists often treat their own children like objects and trophies. One can tell easily even seeing the photos, that they were seen as part of the display, they were not treated as people in their own right. These parents were very religious and home-schooled the children setting up their own private school via California law. This was a fundie family that loved Disney and Elvis.

I don't support homeschooling and think it should be abolished or have very strong and strict state over-sight. There's too many abuses. Go to the website Homeschoolers Anonymous, and you can read the horror tales there, of isolation and young people with diminished futures from lacking education. A few educated parents do homeschool right with self-studies, co-opts and caring about their children but the door is far too open for abuse. The neighbors in all the news stories claim the children weren't allowed to talk to them and came out at night only like vampires. Some didn't even know of their existence.

What scared me about this story the most besides the extreme malnutrition and control, is that some of these children were adults, and they were well into their 20s. One was 29 years old! We see this like with the Duggars where their adult children like Jana and John David Duggar are 27 years old and never have lived on their own or in their own apartment and have their lives directed as much as when they were 12 years old. So some of the chained up "kids" were adults that weren't allowed to grow up or get mature adult lives. I saw the theory online that they did not allow these children to grow up and I believe it, the older adult-children look like they are severely limited and the starving has kept them away from attaining puberty.

Some tried to claim the abuse came later, and that the family "looked happy" at Disney and other tourist spots but I found that nonsense, it did not escape my attention they were all dressed the same, and in those circles "keeping sweet" is part of the formula, where the children are trained to hide all emotions and keep smiling. They look creepy like pod children and you can tell the control from their two parental sociopaths is already happening. Keeping up appearances is very important in fundamentalist Christian circles. This is why many would look at this family and ignore the skeletal limbs and awkwardness like the Elvis impersonator and think "What a happy family!".

The mother being "perplexed" when the cops arrived, she probably is one of those abusers who thought this level of parental control was needed and that she was not an abuser.  We know narcissists aren't very good at self examination or reality checks on their behavior. I would bet money of "To Train up a Child" was probably somewhere in that house.

If you google Turpin and wedding renewal on youtube, you can see videos of their wedding renewals. There we see the narcissism with the endless wedding renewals between this couple and desiring all that attention. I hope the adult children are able to get services, transitional housing and training to get jobs and lives and the other children are kept away from the relatives as well.

The aunt with her googly eyes, acting like it was normal to have all the kids hidden away from her all those years, I don't think much of her either. I hope the grandparents don't get them either:

"James and Betty Turpin said "God called on them" to have as many children as they did (referring to David and Louise). They also said the children were given "very strict home-schooling," and that the children had to memorise long passages of the Bible. Some of the children were aiming to learn it in its entirety, they said."
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  1. I hope social services doesn't give them to any of the relatives. Check out ABC interviewing the sister and her defending her abusive sister...

  2. Wow, isn't this a sad story! I think all ACONs are looking at how this story will play out, what CPS will do for the children, what social services will do for the adult children, how the courts will convict the parents, how the parents will deny, and excuse, and deny, and excuse all of the decades of child abuse!
    The matching haircuts, identical clothes: it spells out the fact that they wanted their children to be a mini-me. That's because narcissists think they are so awesome that everyone would want to be "just like THEM"! Except ... the parents look well fed, and the children look emaciated. One wonders where the self reflection is in that ...
    Do the parents see themselves as skinny? Or was the emaciation about punishment -- "If you don't do as I say, no food!" And the ACONs will be looking for explanations for that too.
    When one really knows a narcissist or a sociopath, their false imprisonment fantasies definitely show the light of day at some point.
    Two false imprisonments used on me included taking away my shoes and coat (in winter with snow on the ground) and the two people who did it giving me a blaming-shaming session so close to my face that I could see the veins in their eyes. It was ALL about what I owed them (over things they gave me when I was a child)! It wasn't until I was crying a river that they let up (and that shows another aspect to their character).
    Anyway, like the Kornegay family from Florida, I'll be keeping my eye on this story for a good long while!

    1. I am scared for those children, and afraid they will given to the dopey sister who runs some kind of Christian ministry or the horrible grandparents who think that homeschooling children while making them memorize the ENTIRE bible is NORMAL! Hopefully the social workers and others won't be dumb enough to give them to the enablers of their abusers. I fear too, about the conviction and wonder if they will deny and excuse. Since the evangelical world has defended pedophiles recently, maybe this is the next case they will take up for their cause. I mean right now I wouldn't be surprised as those parents do croccodile tears and claim religious persecution. I just read by the way Trump wants to pass a law making it legal for a doctor to refuse a gay person, now that's freaking sick. Sorry to get off topic.

      Yes they wanted little mini-mes, the children were not allowed any individuality whatsoever and you see that theme in these fundie Quiverful families, where they are dressed just like the parents and this one it is down to the hair-cuts. Oh the starvation thing and emaciation, I know how that is carried out, [refer to discussion of various fundie families on the Free Jinger forum] they tell the kids they have to fast for God, and do 21 and 40 day fasts. I bet they take away food for punishment too but some use religion to pull off the lower grocery bills.

      I was locked in my bedroom A LOT when I was young so there is part of me that relates to these kids. It happened up to age 7 and then we moved away from the house with locks put on the doors, on the OUTSIDE. So there is part of me that relates to these kids. I was fortunate the locking in stopped, but I was a big kid, and well I probably could have busted down most bedroom doors, and we lived in a neighborhood where the neighbors were close enough they would have heard the shouting. With little kids, narcs can pull off excuses about them having "tantrums" while a 10-12 year old screaming LET ME OUT OF HERE! would get CPS called. And funny enough I do remember screaming out the window a few times, but being ignored, or people were told "she's just playing". Oh sure a lot of these narcissists would love to lock up all their kids for good. Look they even have adults in there. You know they broke their wills long ago for them to sit there and take it. They don't know anything different.

      It's terrible you had false imprisonment too. Being locked in somewhere puts me in immediate fight or flight, and well when you are locked in the fighting comes out. Would be criminals too if they tried to tie me up, or locked me up, there'd probably be a reaction they would not expect.

      When I think of kid chained to beds it freaks me out. I hope they nail both those parents, protect the kids away from the rest of the creepy family and help them get good and healthy lives.

      Yeah you were told you owed them! Sick...Yeah they love making people cry and glory in it. It's terrible that happened to you. I repressed a lot of the emotions for years about my being locked in my room during those young years. LOL my version of blanket training? It sure made my siblings obey no matter what.

      I should check out the family from Florida.

      IN fundie religion, I know one reason I left the churches before I left the religion was I didn't like how the children were raised. I wrote on Christian message boards that some had gotten carried away with the homeschooling and authoritarianism and they shouldn't abuse their children or try to control them. I wanted to puke when I heard "spare the rod" speeches from pastors too about how beating kids would keep them in line and make them godly.

      I'm going to keep my eye on this story too.

    2. Yeah that's one thing that scares me about this case, these kids were so beaten down, they didn't scream and shout so any of the neighbors could hear. I am glad one escaped to tell what was happening. I saw an article about their Texas house too where they believed they were locked in closets.

    3. It is so, so typical for scapegoats to be isolated to a room, or locked in one! The thing is, it can be so normalized by the parent that we can think there is nothing wrong with it. The parents didn't think there was anything wrong with it, for instance. So, I just wonder how these children dealt with it.

      I think the message about isolation is supposed to be "You're not worthy of being part of our family!" -- except do we always internalize it that way?

      It might all depend on what we do in that room. Do we draw pictures, write letters, or practice ballet steps? In other words, do we dream big in that room? Or is the room stripped?

      Obviously being chained to a bed is not going to produce many dreams except wanting to become unchained. Or maybe the brainwashing got so entrenched, they felt they were doing it for religious reasons, for salvation. Congratulations to the 17 year old daughter who dreamed big enough to set them all free! And I bet she was a scapegoat, as most forward dreamers are!

      I need to read up on the religious aspects of this, so thanks for providing that.

    4. Yes many are isolated or locked in rooms. It's a way to control. I didn't even know it was illegal what was done to me until I became an adult, and thought parents locked other kids in rooms too.

      I think the isolation is about cutting the child off from the family too, also it's control, otherwise why not go the way of leaving the child to it's own devices. I would have stayed away gladly.

      My room got stripped a little bit but some pens and pencils in books were left in there. You hear of the "tough love" types who rip the room clean sometimes without even a bed to sleep on.

      Yeah being chained to the bed, there's not going to be many dreams. Maybe it became a punishment for disobedience, those parents definitely probably used religion or said they were working in God's will. Think about why didn't the adult children fight back? They've been indoctrinated all their lives. I bet the 17 year old was a scapegoat too. I am glad for her big dreams and for her REBELLION. [lol the word used by the uber religious when ever someone THINKS for THEMSELVES.

      This is a subculture to dig deep into...

      Go read Free Jinger, [not all these families are abusive to the point of this one, but you can see a subculture that sets up the premises for a LOT of ABUSE

    5. Thanks for those links. I'll look at them.

  3. This family is an example of why I have been against home schooling since I first heard about it in the 1990s. The ones who were in the purity movement and espoused fundamentalist Christianity usually sought an option to "home school" their children.

    When I was in school during the 1970s, children with severe disability usually had their education at home but the arrangement was different. These students had teachers teaching them at home instead of having an abusive parents locking them up for hours.

    In the 1990s, I first heard about extreme homeschool programs when I started hanging out with several people in the fundamentalist Christian community in Southern California. I did not like what I learned about homeschool and the motivations behind it. I heard many horror stories that took place in homeschool program. Many parents uaually physically, emotionally and mentally abused their children instead of teaching them. In extreme cases, children due to severe physical abuse, malnutrition, and to being locked up for months.

    I feel sorry for these abused 13 children in the news, especially adults who were locked up for years.

    I hope these adult children will find good social workers and therapists who would help them to get started on their adulthood. I could say that as long as they are not with their parents and the government start giving them financial support such as social security income, subsidized housing and food stamp, and financial aid for college or vocational school, they could start.

    But these young adults have to deal with PTSD and possible low self-esteem. Hopefully their social workers and therapists would help them over the time. Getting help from these programs depend on the city or state they live and whether there are fund available. According to the news, it looks like those teen-agers and adults are getting help so far. I only hope these adults did not become developmentally delayed nor have intellectual disability as a result of being neglected and abused in a locked up house for years. That emaciated teenager who escaped and got her neighbors' attention for help is a very brave young woman.

    1. I agree that homeschooling practices need to be looked at a lot more carefully, and discussed at CPSs across the country. I can attest to the fact that I knew more than just a handful of children who were severely abused and were home-schooled.

      In one situation, a child begged her mother to let her go to public school, but it was denied. The social isolation created a lot of emotional scars and major depression. Test that were sent by the state were largely filled out by the parent.

      I think if there was some sort of mandatory random visits to the home by a social worker or teacher every week, this might at least stem the tide of abuse in these situations.

      Narcs love to isolate their children, kill a child's dreams, groom them to please only Mom or Dad, shame them endlessly. Homeschooling is a run-away train for these agendas and personalities.

    2. I have seen homeschooling done literally in front of me. I think some parents liked not having to get up in the morning and the freedom of not having to adhere to a school schedule. For a harried housewife, no 7 am wake ups made lives easier. Homeschooling was DOMINANT in my small remote rural town. Almost everyone at my churches homeschooled. Some sent kids to private charter schools. I realize now what a bubble of extreme conservativism I lived in. LOL Probably could write a book. There's been articles written about my old town about how conservative it is. I saw one mother, who is kind and not abusive get out work sheets for a few hours a day. I didn't think it was equal to going to school. Her daughters did return later to school and graduated high school. Maybe they saw the limits to it all. One lady in Calvary Chapel had her family following the Stay at Home Daughter movement, these people were not abusive, as far as physically but I always got the feeling her daughters were very very sheltered and still are even as young adults. I noticed midwifery always seemed to be a chosen field just like the Duggars. These daughters were homeschooled [I am friends with them on Facebook, and have lots of old church members as friends] and homeschooled very properly with a co-op, theatre group etc. I always had the thought though their parents had the benefits of education the normal way, including college, so what happens to the third generation. These girls are not going to college by the way. College is frowned upon for girls in extremely conservative and religious circles now.

      While there are non-abusive homeschooling parents--the people above--though the daughters I see as overly sheltered and controlled they do love their parents and vice versa--there's many abusive ones, the Internet is full of people talking about isolation, being put to work and denied a real education. Children are automatically sunk to the educational and IQ level of their parents. I can understand those who have a child who is massively bullied or an Aspie, who cannot tolerate regular school or there is a very poor or non-existent special education placement, but for many it does deny them many resources. Imagine being stuck at home with the same 10 books, instead of shelves and shelves at the school library. Not all parents take the child to the public library. I believe the push for homeschooling has a dark side to it, with DeVos and those like her wanting to do away with public education as the long range plan, an uneducated populace is an easier to control populace. Fundie religious leaders don't want educated people asking too many questions either.

      What happened to these children is criminal and horrific but homeschooling set up the isolation, with little oversight. There's too many abuses that can happen. It gives a sociopathic narcissist open free range to abuse without censure. Most people who are abusive have to restrain it a little bit, if their kids are out in the community, starving shows, and so does black eyes, and since these kids were hidden away it made things more dangerous for them. There needs to be some state oversight. I know the uber religious pound the idea of "small government" down everyone's throats but it's funny how they want the government so small when it comes to the protection of vulnerable people and the disabled, and they want it gigantic when it comes to wars.

      My heart breaks for a child who is stuck at home and refused school and a real education. I am sure that is happening more then we can guess. Sorry most parents are not equal to the level of teachers, and even there, a child is restricted to one viewpoint and their world becomes even more narrow. Homeschooling is a disaster for any child with a narcissist involved. If I had been educated by Queen Spider, what a narrow world indeed. One reason I survived was teachers who were kind to me. I remember one named Mrs. R for life. I believe I would not have survived without her.

    3. "I know the uber religious pound the idea of 'small government' down everyone's throats but it's funny how they want the government so small when it comes to the protection of vulnerable people and the disabled, and they want it gigantic when it comes to wars."
      --- yup, good point!

    4. Thanks Lise, so much hypocrisy with them all.

  4. Homeschooling can be a great thing especially when it comes to an autistic child if done correctly.

    1. I know some autistic parents have been forced to homeschool, because resources are low for their child or needs are not being met. I do think resources should be provided but sadly homeschooling is often the place of last resort.

    2. Unless the parents are abusive homeschooling IS the best.

  5. To me, they are a cult of control - the actual (claimed) religion is incidental. The obsession with Disney and Vegas is kind of telling - as if they'd thought "what do NORMAL people do for fun?" and decided to mimic that to give the outward impression of being a good family.

    The other thing is the malnourishment of the kids - that's a way to control used in concentration camps and cults. Stick 'em on a low protein and low nutrient diet and you've got people who are very docile and with memory and cognitive problems. I think that was very VERY deliberate and they're a couple of totally calculating and devious psychopaths.

    1. Actually the cult of control has to do with the religion. Many of these Quiverful families, are in IFB churches or ones with similar teachings, the Duggars attend an IFB church [of course there are other mainstream evangelical churches and I saw Quiverful families in Calvary Chapel too] Authoritarian fundamentalist religion does impact family life. I was an outliner as a convert in, and with an unsaved husband but I was privy to the church libraries and family lives around me and the more I saw I was disturbed. I didn't see anyone being abused enough to do reports of anything but heavy handed "don't spare the rod" teachings, and control even over young adults was the norm. And YES I get embarrassed even admitting I went to IFB churches [Calvary Chapel from a move for a while] There is a marriage of evangelical/fundamentalist Christianity to authoritaranism and Dominionism, and I see it worsening. It's one puzzle piece of my deconversion because I realized a God that threatens people with hell isn't exactly a 'freedom" lover and laid back type. LOL

      This man is an ex-IFB pastor, I am more alternative theist/agnostic and a UU, and he is an atheist, but he is right about the endless abuses in the IFB church system and families like this.

      I think the Disney world and Vegas stuff was narcissists trying to give appearances of "happy family" Disney especially is teamed with happy families and what you said what normal people do for fun. Queen Spider loved Disney World and used to take all the grandkids there. So I am always on edge with Disney stuff though I liked some of the characters and movies. I always found it funny how fundie Christians loved Disney world when it's the MAGIC kingdom too. Well I am coming out of my own deprogramming not to freak out about Harry Potter and the like but there was always a discongruency there, with so many fundie Christians who loved Disney.

      Yeah I think they underfed them to control them too, also to save money. Low 6 figures doesn't go far in California. They got their Vegas and Disney trips while the kids starved. Yes that's a diet to keep kids docile and underdeveloped. Since adults were chained up, she wanted to keep the kids literally from growing up.

      One trend in fundie Christianity which should disturb was called "sheltering". This wasn't taught overtly at any of my churches but I am sure some of the homeschoolers implemented it.

      Oh another one to look at is the Stay at Home Daughter Movement.

      Scary stuff and all about control and using religion to do so.

  6. Updates and it's pretty bad:

  7. You might be interested in this video:

  8. WOW---and the governors of Oregon,(democrats) refuse to obey state laws voted in;to give the death penalty to child-killers in the state.Our own governors disobey our laws!!You won't like what i'm going to say;that abuse of family members,kids,is the APPROVED OF AND NORMAL FUNCTION OF FAMILIES HUMAN.SOCIETY SUPPORTS THIS.I read old mental illness blog,long ago,that explained abuse of family members,kids,and mental illness,was part of real society,not an's supported as "NORMAL."--and it is A REAL PART OF SOCIETY.IT ALWAYS HAS BEEN.YES.No wonder we cannot get rid of it!!abuse of kids is supported.--I read an explanation of the hetero,male parent who sexually abuses his kids;it is the normal,hetero male parent personality,always supported by society,deemed "normal"..WHAT I found out,is child abuse,sex abuse,perversion,ect, is NORMAL IN HUMAN SOCIETY.--that's WHY we can't stop it!!!Society support it.You think its a person obviously sick?.Ever since I discovered this,I traced this behavior back to our ape ancestors.(like a lot of our behavior can be traced.)If a male baboon,wants to have sex with a female,and she refuses,he beats her up,and rapes her.BUT this is normal for our relatives,apes!!!OUR society does not stop this in humans.There are too many similarities tracing our child-abusive behavior,also,to the normal animal world.They even kill their children,and its "normal" we will not get rid of this behavior,until our race changes into a "semi-human"race,extinguishing much animal traits we possess.Then,we would no longer be "human."--But the death of the planet will render this moot.--The Human will die off.We did not progress enough to stop this.

    1. Sure abuse is being mainstream. Everything is about control of the young. Lack of empathy is pushed from the top especially in conservative and religious circles that teach obedience at all costs. I wrote on a Christian website once, that young people were too oppressed in Christianity and controlled. That life should not all be punishment and blind obedience. AQt the time I had the cognitive dissonance not realizing the religion itself with it's threats of hell, was oppressive and controlling but it is there, the more fundamentalist a family the more authoritarianism--psychologists have researched this say authoritarian parenting is the norm in religious fundamentalist households.
      Society does support this you are right hoho!

      I have negative thoughts about "family", sometimes I think it is a biological/non-biological for the adopted prison, but my own experiences of it has been so negative.

      I had a strange thought about Christianity too how it seems built on a PUNISHING FATHER paradigm, and whatever dad or the parents say goes. We see more people now who want to literally "beat" the young into submission, don't spare the rod spoil the child. Tell those "snowflakes" to shut up. There is a lot of cruelty. Children don't fare so well in a narcissistic sociopathic society. For these creeps, their children were trophies. They hated them but they wanted them to show off, and to look like the good "Christian" parents who were successful. Children are trophies in my own family there to serve the needs of the parents. Yes humanity supports child abuse and control. Top down control, might makes right BS, and religions that teach a God that will punish with no freedom.

  9. I am going to "out"this true story,since can't find another venue;when i was a teen,in Sacramento,CA,there was an active secret "sex club"that even engineers and staff of AeroJet General Missle Industry were in,and during early 60's,my father forced me into it.I only remember the parts I can handle--I have very bad PTSD,Clinical Depression trauma,I ended up as a young adult in mental hospitals.A researcher told me,60 % of people in mental hospitals had sex abuse and abuse as kids.--at least 60 %.Many others had same treatment,but didn't go to mental hospitals.Also,a lot of EXTREME OBESE AS ADULTS was traced by Kaiser Permanente study,to sexual abuse as kids.--they HAD TO STUDY WHY--because their obese patients could never keep the weight off!!--it was linked to the abuse.--Their patients would even try to suicide,RATHER THAN remember it,deal with it.--Yes,our human society supports child sexual abuse,because it is deemed NORMAL TO HUMANS and supports society too.Maybe the extinction of Mankind is an "explainable result",as Humans are TOO PERVERTED to even save their planet.--We are too perverted as a species.Unless we breed with Advanced Outer-space aliens,to become "no longer human",we won't survive.--NOT MUCH chance of that,unfortunately.

    1. There's sex abuse in all layers of society, and on conspiracy boards I used to read about pizza gate and other perversions. I believe you about the sex club. I have heard others tell stories of being sexually abused and where children are marketed. Sex trafficking continues to this day and many perverts go after kids and teens. Yes the effects of severe sex abuse are often the mental hospital. With many mentally ill, the start of it all was severe abuse.

      Some abusive families will push a scapegoat into psych wards too, I saw that happening in front of me. I definitely believe there was sex abuse in the earlier generations in my family. I don't talk about every dark thing on this blog, but know this... when people crack up or act like some scapegoats I've talked about on here, very bad stuff has happened to them. With severe obesity, I believe cortisol and break down of the adrenal pituitary access makes that happen from abuse more then any overeating. The stress I was under from the poverty in my own weight gain was severe. Lipedema is worsened by abuse and trauma, this is a known fact among it's researchers. Yes this society supports sex abuse at multiple layers. Evangelicals like Franklin Graham defended Trump's affairs with prostitutes the other day. Sexual harrassment, rape, and child abuse are increasing out there. I wonder about the survival of humanity too.

  10. Peep, I think some of these comments need to be in another article by you.thanks so much,I am not allowed to go on Wiki,under "Aero-Jet General Missle Industry,in Sacramento,CA,early 60's".I tried,they erased it.A LOT OF SEXUAL ABUSE WAS DONE BY THOSE ENGINEERS.--AND IRS ALL COVERED UP.You wanta suggestion?investigate sex abuse by people in the big computer industries--bet you you find abusers there.MEN.Engineers.--big technical guys.

    1. Sorry to hear that. It is terrible what you have gone through :( I wonder if other victims have spoken out online too like there has been support boards for those victimized by Catholic priests etc.

  11. You know that Coppola movie about the sisters in one family, who all suicided, was a real case?I read it was real.

  12. Hi, Peep
    I googled the chances of a woman getting pregnant over the age of 45 without the help of a fertility clinic and it was rated as very, very low. So I really have to wonder where that two-year-old Turpin child came from. There is at least a ten year gap between her and the next oldest child. A tragic case, but I am noticing already that people around me don't want to hear about it. They are so in love with the notion of perfect parents and families. In fact, if you allow just anyone, no matter how crazy or criminal or ignorant, to have kids, then the results are not always going to be pretty. Most people regard kids as property, but it is not fashionable these days to say so outright, so it is prettied up with sentimentality.

    1. I wonder about that 10 year gap too. I read that the police did a DNA test on the 2 year old to see if that child was a result of sex abuse but they said it was Louise's child. I wonder about there being dead children too, and read in another article, they plan to dig for potential murder victims. I believe chances are a few children died of all the starvation and abuse. Maybe that ten year gap had some children in it. Some people on a message board, I can't remember if it was Web Sleuths or where it was, said Louise was discussing being pregnant at a time where there was no child existent to explain it.

      I agree no one wants to hear about it. I am around people in love with the idea of perfect parents and families too. One reason I am no longer Christian, is the world of Stepford families got to be too much for a child-less woman. Children truly are seen as trophies and objects to raise status in American society and it has gotten worse. Any sociopath can now pop out a kid and we are seeing the results. I agree most see kids as property too.

  13. The movie hoho refers to is "The Virgin Suicides." I beg to differ, being that it was a novel, then a movie. The fact remains that the isolated girls had a repressive, cross wearing mother (terrific performance by Kathleen Turner.)A film worth watching about adolescent seclusion & escape. Not as depressing as it sounds - more of a soft focus love letter to the 70's and angsty desire before cell phones!

  14. It is strange that no one is mentioning the children by name, as though they are individuals. Just these constant group photos with everyone dressed the same, as though the outside world is taking on the way the parents think. Usually even group photos get name captions at the bottom, like Top Row ..., ... and ... The media is already spinning this story and telling us how freakishly unusual it is and how it doesn't apply to anyone you know. Controlling parents are not unusual; only the degree of control is unusual here.

    The kids all had names starting with J. The only other family to do this that I have ever heard of was the Goebbels family; their kids all had names beginning with H.

    The escaping 17 year old had photos with her, to prove what she was saying was true. Otherwise she probably would not have been believed; parents get the benefit of the doubt, not kids. It shows how repressive and hostile society is generally for kids. She was lucky that the authorities reacted so quickly. She seems to have learned from previous escape attempt(s) by her sibling(s).

    There seems to have been at least one previous failed escape attempt. In Texas, one of the girls was seen walking along the road and was offered a lift. She asked the driver how one got a driver's license and a job and it turned out she didn't know the date of her own birthday. Many children of controlling parents have problems getting hold of their own birth certificates and other documents necessary for adult life, but at least they know their own birth dates.

    I seem to be going on here a bit but I have no one to talk to about this case. Everyone I know is in denial about family dysfunction.

    1. I have heard a few of the J names but I have noticed that too, where they are only being mentioned as a group. I am not sure if this is privacy issues.

      Obviously the parents didn't see them as individuals either just dressing them all the same and yes that bothers me too.

      I don't think this story is unusual at all. Remember I am an ex-fundamentalist Christian. I saw 'weird" families, I didn't see any abuse in front of me because if I did unlike these people's neigbors I'd be calling it in. But I knew enough isolated and sheltered children where the parents had total control. I had an issue with the way Christian parents raised children long long ago and misgivings about homeschooling. I remember talking to the one parent with the worksheets, telling her maybe she should send her girl back to school, she did later, hopefully I was a good influence for that girls life. That household is not too extreme as the girls are in college though the parents remain Christians. I have been on enough ex-fundamentalist boards and deconversion ones, to know what life was like for many raised in Christian fundamentalism [the whole homeschooled, quiverful world] I had the Catholic weirdness and extremism growing up but many attest to the control, extreme helicoptering parents, and more. Some did escape terrible abuse and wrote about it online. I consider my childhood religious abusive but Catholicism is a whole other culture. I was in private school so there was only so much my parents could get away with. I do believe there is a definite connection to us moving to the neighborhood where I lived right across the street from the school and no longer being locked in my bedroom anymore.


    2. Yes the 17 year old needed pictures to prove things. One had already tried to escape in Texas you are right, she tried to run away and was not believed. Sadly many abused children go through this. I told adults that my mother and father hit me and hated me all the time including the nuns. I would be disbelieved, they would tell me sometimes parents had to spank their children and that I should obey more. I am sure if this girl did not have pictures she would have been accused of lying. Sociopathic and narcissistic parents know how to put on a front. These two put on a front for their own siblings for years, I noticed even one wrote, we thought they had a great life, he made so much money and they showed us their pictures of trips to Disney World. Some of them really may not have known what was going on like the one half brother. Narcissists lie. I wish some had investigated more. I am no contact from my own siblings so know nothing of the children's lives. Most are in their late teens now.

      The Duggars did the J name thing too, but that is creepy Goebbels did it, for his first name I am sure. I have talked to some fellow victims of abuse about this case, but regular people, yeah they are in denial. It was sickening to see a few evangelicals defending home schooling and trying to make light of what happened, that made me want to puke.

      Yeah it's crazy they weren't even told of their own birthdays. I guess Momster and her co-sociopath didn't want the bother of birthdays either as they rewarded themselves with wedding renewals. Oh one report said everything was locked up from closets to refrigerators. I hope in their recovery they include life and social skills too. These parents are selfish too, in pleading not guilty and dragging their children through a trial. I hope they are put in prison for life.

    3. The six Goebbels children were given names starting with H for Hitler and were all murdered by their mother on May 1, 1945. They seem to have been dedicated to Hitler from birth. Germany was a lot like a giant cult during the Hitler years and given to occult practices. This is hard for me to wrap my brain around; I wouldn't know an occult practice if I fell over one. But it seems central to understanding that era and I have been curious about that era since my childhood because no one would talk about WWII and it wasn't taught in school, even though it was on the curriculum and final exam. The town was full of east European immigrants and the silence was deafening.

      Giving kids names with the same initial as a leader seems to be like giving them to that leader like a piece of property and has cultic overtones. I am baffled myself but like to be aware of what's going on even if it makes no sense, like current US events.

    4. Scary it was H for Hitler. Sigh, yeah when people do that, it creeps me out. Both my siblings have names that begin with the same letter, mine is different. Yeah Germany got into weird cult crap, seeing their eugenics and rest as a spiritual quest. Here too though the churches of the time like with Trump all kowtowed to him but even the alt-right still has it's eugenics crap and weirdo kek garbage.

      I and my husband have a lot of interest in WWII. He is son of two parents who went through World War II, and saw it for themselves as preteens and teens. I have writings from my deceased mother in law, where she was running from snipers and abandoned in a hospital. WWII directly impacted my life because it means my MIL, had severe schizophrenia and was not there--she had a stroke being given a wrong med in the mental hospital the year I met my now husband. Both his parents were deceased very young. He has no family in the country except the one deceased cousin who died [the drug addict] one GC cousin her brother and his sister who lives far away. His father saw horrors beyond measure too. Both parents went through hunger, and saw the dead bodies, one said he saw concentration camp victims when they were being freed by USA soldiers. So we both have studied a lot about WWII, history books, read books on Hitler, etc.

      I think it is cultic and makes the kids a piece of property. Remember in Nazi Germany they had breeding program called Lebensborn, and to be honest with you, there are parallels with American white nationalism which has taken over evangelical circles [Quiverful, fundamentalist] I wrote against Quiverful when I was a fundamentalist Christian, and was horrified by it, but it has grown, where the refusal to use birth control is growing in some evangelical circles and the alt-right types talk about making sure the "white population" does "die out".