Sunday, July 6, 2014

Narcissist's Are Animals Who Turn On Their Young

Ollie is right about the people who cannot conceptualize parents who reject and abuse their own children. I had to face facts outside of the closest people to me, very few were going to understand the story of my family. He is right about the narcissist hiding in plain sight. He is also right about the narcissists seeing that person as a threat just as animals go against a threat they perceive. Some may ask how were you a threat to your parents? That doesn't make sense. I am sick and fat but by a young age, they were angry I was so smart, they also were angry that I saw right through them. They don't seek to destroy the ones who will never challenge them. Yes the longer you are no contact, more memories will come up.  Being removed from the situation does give you fresh eyes. For me admitting how bad it was, is part of this journey. So for me this video was very interesting.


  1. Yk, I watched Ollie's latest video you've referenced here and thought about wild animals turning on their young. I live in the middle of essentially a huge wildlife refuge ("Forever Wild" Designation) and I've never seen that happen. Yeah, we do have rabies and that's why most of us have rifles-as well as for subsistence hunting. Aside from rabies, I've never seen a wild animal acting anything but, well, wild. I've just *never* seen them turn on their young. If anything, the dedication and patience they demonstrate is mind-blowing: In all the decades I've lived here I've never seen a paw, a hoof, a beak, a feather etc. raised towards their young-ever. I've watched various species use all kinds of strategies to protect their young-including having a friend get the crap kicked out of her by a doe when she unknowingly wandered too close to the wood line where the doe had stashed her fawn. (She was badly injured-the doe definitely "won".)
    Encourage their young to go out into the world before a new brood or litter arrives-yes, they'll do that, but the young are by that point well equipped to deal with the realities of life on their own. As I watch new broods being taught and prepared to be launched this time of the year, I'm consistently reminded wild animals show more fidelity, patience and acceptance, do a far superior job of raising their off-spring than we had. This leaves me feeling both happy and sad: Happy for the animals, sad for us.

    Remember what I told you about time with NC and how your "view" opens from a pin-hole lens and becomes increasingly panoramic?! Same principle. Don't ever doubt it *was* "that bad," Peep.
    Because it was all that-and worse.
    The memories can be very, very painful. I remind myself if I lived through that event, I'll survive through the internal "re-telling." IMO, we have to feel "safe enough" for the memories to re-surface-at least that's been my experience. Safety was non-existant as long as I remained in contact with the abusers. Dealing with the almost constant drama and chaos they inevitably created didn't leave much time or energy for me to do anything but react-react-react instead of respond: It was exhausting and soul crushing just to deal with them. IMO and experience, it's impossible to put ourselves or the pieces of our lives together as long as we keep placing ourselves in a position to allow the abusers access to us, hoping somehow they'll stop doing what they've always done: Sooner or later, they revert to form. Their Character is IMO intractable. That doesn't mean our participation is necessary for them to be who and what they are.
    As I finally realized, if my presence isn't helping-and it wasn't, for any of us-my absence wouldn't hurt.
    Even though they did scream about my "absence" ;)

  2. Hi Tundra Woman, I agree with you about the wild animals treating their young better. Those who turn on them, usually have something wrong. I watch enough nature shows to realize most of the young cubs and such are being killed by non-biologically attached males. Most of the mothers fight back at all costs to protect their young. Agree about humanity, I'm sad for humanity in many ways lately. This world is getting even worse for children.

    Yes my view is becoming more panoramic. Some of it has been very difficult because I am remembering how very bad things were. I may write more on specific events that have come to my memory. Yes some have been very painful. Yes if we got through it the first time we will get through it the second. I think about the erosion of the daily screaming, put-downs, withdrawals and rejection. One memory came up where I even asked my mother to go bowling with her as a teen. I didn't have many friends at school, what is ironic is on a social website is some of my highschool acquaintances, told me I seemed very withdrawn in high school and sad, I am not surprised. My mother basically shoved me away and told me to get my own friends even though she put as many blockades in front of that as possible, with the endless housecleaning, rules and more. The memories can be very, very painful.

    I am not sure I feel safe yet, in that the financial thing is really oppressive but I do feel SAFER being away from them. Inside the whirlwind you are not getting the outside view. I have been able to objectively judge them as people finding them amoral, cold, shallow and intellectual deficient. That is a latest thing, a more self reference type of outlook. It was exhausting for me to deal with them. One reason I ran was knowing the visits could kill me being a often housebound woman with severe disabilities.

    My panoramic view has said "Oh my goodness, there I was with all these severe health problems, and no one was putting forth any energy to come visit me or anything, they expected me to travel even during the times I was getting at home nursing care. I thought to myself about shows and parents helping their disabled children. I also had the thought, YOUR MOTHER AND FATHER GOT EXPERIMENTAL MEDICAL TREATMENT FOR YOUR SISTER AND DID NOTHING FOR YOU! [yes they did, she was the first one to live from her early childhood autoimmune disorder]

    Many times I would say NO because physically it was impossible. She would tell people I was a malingerer and lazy and just fat, and tell them I was lying about my lung and other conditions. This is why they planned the annual family gathering during the coldest part of December even when I haven't seen family members for years. Physically it had grown impossible to keep up with them as well as emotional.

    Ever read that book Gift of Fear? I always felt afraid of them, kind of like the same fear I felt when walking at night in my old inner city neighborhood knowing I could get jumped at any time. This is the toll that abusers take. I am so glad and relieved to be away from the dramas, the lies, the phone calls where I am on edge and measuring every word.

    Mine always reverted to form and in her sociopathy, felt dangerous to be around and that only grew worse for me. I was scared to death of getting very ill at her house. I am hoping I can put some pieces together, I have some serious serious challenges, but things are far better now. I have had moments of happiness like I haven't ever felt before. Where I am not judged or condemned and around people who love me is when it usually comes out.



  3. My presence meant nothing to my abusers. I was always treated by them with an undercurrent of annoyance and sighing 'tolerance". I don't think in my case my absence is really affecting them. The Queen Spider is probably most worried about explaining to her husband of 8 years why her daughter disappeared and looking like a "bad mother". I am sure some horrible lies have been told to cover that up. Some hoovering was attempted but she never told anyone around her I was gone. More of her secrets. I am glad you got away too TW.

  4. (I hope you don't mind me telling you my ACON stories - I don't really talk about this stuff anywhere else).

    I have a few ACON friends (we tend to stick together), including my roommate - she's much younger than me and only got away from the narc less than two years ago. Recently another close friend of ours made a comment to me about my roommate's eccentric eating habits. I pointed out that she may well not have been fed meals when she lived with the narc - narcs often don't bother feeding their children. I told her that another of our ACON friends used to live off hot chocolate powder when she was a child because her mother didn't feed her. I was lucky - I had another carer until I was 11, so when it got to the point when I had no one to protect me from the narc, I was old enough to cook for the whole family.

    Apparently this is shocking to some people? That narcs don't feed their children? This is the reality we ACONs are used to.

  5. "My presence meant nothing to my abusers." Peep, Can we look at this a different way? From the viewpoint of Family Systems and Dynamics? I mention this NOT to in ANY way diminish your very astute observations and experiences at all, but to view it through the "Panoramic Lens" I've mentioned previously.
    All members of a Family, particularly kids in a screwed up Family get "classified" and stuck in an extremely rigid, unyielding to reason, to intellect-hell, even to OBJECTIVE, identifiable behaviors-in RESPONSE to the genesis and maintaining of that child's role within the context of their Family. The child's behavior manifests their *response* to their parent's interactions (or lack thereof) with them. Confused, uncertain, wanting only the unconditional love and approval by their parent, the child is unable to escape their role, any more than they can escape their "home," or even verbalize the "problem" as emanating not from the child, but from the parent. Think of how loathe we are even as adults to use the word "abuse" with respect to our "parents" and correctly identify their behavior as such-a child doesn't stand a chance. (But we keep trying and trying, don't we?!) You were absolutely essential to maintain the facade of "Our Family is Perfect-Except for Peep. Peep is *the source* of all and ANY "problems" in THIS family!" You became the repository of all that "ailed," you essentially took the heat off the major Perps-the ADULTS/PARENTS-by your mere existence. You mentioned a few Posts back your "mother" commenting to you when you were a child something to the effect she "didn't UNDERSTAND you" (para). I'm gonna step out on a limb and state the unspoken behind those words: Her lack of "understanding" did NOT motivate her in any way to engage in one of the most fundamental realities and responsibilities of parents, i.e., we, as parents must ENTER the world of our children because they are children, not mini-adults. The responsibility-and BLAME-was placed on YOU for her "lack of understanding," exactly backwards from the perspective of Parents/Adults and their inherent responsibilities vs. those of their children.
    Did your "mother" make ANY effort to "understand" you? Any effort to explore even the physical problems which became very manifest in adolescence-and should have been the huge tip-off to the need for an Endocrinologist? No. And I'm using this as a small example of the rampant neglect which permeated your childhood as well as the abuse. How could you possibly, even as a child not be aware of all the efforts that were made to assist your sister?! "Sister" was "worth it" and you were "disposable." Your medical issues alone, in addition to her failure to investigate/assist or even support your autism are IMO appalling. Your natural talents in terms of creativity were not only unsupported, but DENIGRATED and sabotaged at every turn. (But you STILL made it, you still completed your education *despite* them!)
    I agree, your absence *should be* be a huge red flag to her "DH." I also agree you have been the recipient of a major Smear Campaign as you have been throughout your life, both proactively and reactively. No doubt, The Queen Spider found herself a new lap dawg-and a new source of financial/material support-with her new "DH." And we know how proficient The Queen Spider is at history revisionism and spin.
    They never knew you, Peep. That's their loss.
    Yes, I read The Gift of Fear when it first came out-an excellent read still, IMO. It's scary how much risk we endured simply to survive. Heartbreaking our fear evolved as a natural predictable response to the one place that should have been the safest, most secure environment imaginable-our "homes." sigh.

    1. Yes I got labeled and shoved in a box, I couldn't get out of until I went NC. In fact a lot of my NC was motivated not wanting to be under these labels they had given me anymore. It was like everyone was playing roles even into OLD AGE and never breaking out of them. Siblings, Scapegoat Aunt, etc. I said to hell with this and wanted to be free of all of it. Yes I was the trashcan, the "troublemaker", "rebel" though juvie hall never saw me as a teen in my family not agreeing with the narcs made you one.

      Thanks for pointing that out about her blaming ME for not being understood. That is messed up. Why didn't the woman ever read a book or TRY to understand. She didn't care that she didn't understand. She is one that always seemed to love ignorance. Iq of a 1000 when screwing people over or conniving but book smarts, introspection, wanting to find out something, it just was not there. One could send her emails, post links on a social website, explain things and she never would get it. How else did I end up an undiagnosed or treated Aspie? How else did health problems that started by the age of 12 just got worse and worse.

      She took absolutely no responsiblity for understanding or caring for beyond the basics of food and shelter for her own child. THANK YOU FOR POINTING THIS OUT, and yes this ties into me facing facts, she went and got extreme experts for medical care for my sister to the point she was written up in a medical journal for a new therapy. What was I chopped liver? I guess so. Ignored was the swelling, fatigue, breathing problems, brown spots all over my body to the point she would scream about me washing my neck and a 100lb weight gain that occurred at age 12 with puberty within 6 months. I went deaf in one ear, infection, early Menieres? as a teen and was crying and she refused to take me to a doctor. Yes I was expendable to them. Her excuse during the neglect while I was dying in the ghetto, was, "Your father was sick." Well what about me? I am now deaf in that ear. I have faced the SERIOUS MEDICAL NEGLECT as a child head on this year. I do not know why these things did not occur to me but caught in the whirlwind and their constant programming of "YOU ARE AT FAULT", I had a lot to work through. Even now I think about how sick it was that I was always told I was to blame for all my medical sufferings and mishaps. The autism neglect is very very bad. In fact they would laugh and sneer to their friends about some things I did as a toddler and child, that were all the signs of autism but they would use to insult me or denigrate me. One story they told is how they had to spank and beat me to get me to walk because I was "too lazy". I did not walk until I was nearly 2 years old. Another was her bragging, YES BRAGGING that she could leave me in my crib alone for hours and I would not cry and I would play with light motes. Add in other stuff like lining up shoes for hours, and OCD problems as a child-I had to deal with this stuff and get it under control as an adult and the sheer neglect looking now as a middle-aged adult I can barely believe it.

    2. I agree they tried to crush my talents, it is sick, and yes sometimes I think of how far I could have gone in a decent family. Aspies can inherit many gifts and I did. I am glad I did complete my education but do subscribe to the Grandma Moses view of later success in life. LOL I find myself wondering what the DH is thinking. Since he has no independent email since she has to keep him "under control", I had no real way to tell him why I was going NC. I know she never in a million years would have shown him the NC letters. Obviously since he has been married to her only 8 years I do not consider him a "stepfather" but he never tried to contact me or ask WHY? Maybe too afraid to but that is on him. I think he is a new lap dog and she glommed on to him to help with the money. The last visit, I saw her yelling at him for not bringing the right box up from the basement and wondered to myself why is that man of decent means putting up with that stuff? No The Queen Spider never knew me. I agree we endured a lot of risk. I applied the Gift of Fear to me going NC. I believe warning bells sound in people's hearts and souls for a reason. Yes Home is supposed to be a safe place and never was for us. Thanks for this post too. The medical and other neglect is an issue I have been facing head on during the past months in realizing how severe it was. I feel better now and feel different. One chain being unshackled is that shame and blame for getting ill in the first place.

  6. I also get the neglect and abuse regarding medical issues when I was growing up from the time I was an infant. My MN "Mother" (a very well educated for her time medical professional) swung wildly between Engulfing and Ignoring. (Some of the events are hysterical if you have a Gallows Sense of Humor, but painful nonetheless.) I don't want to make this about me, it's about you and the (Go PEEP!) "opening up" for you.
    That you're even able to find the words to so aptly describe the same Themes restores some of what was lost, Peep: It gives you a VOICE that was never "allowed" throughout your life with your NFOO.
    To remember, to re-tell despite all the pain is a triumph.

    1. Sorry you had the terrible medical neglect too. The self absorbed are not going to pay attention to serious chronic health conditions. Society may force them to take a kid to the doctor for a broken arm or things that acutely SHOW, but obviously with what we have faced the story is different. I never had the engulfing stuff just ignoring, but I have a friend who had major narc engulfer mother and that seems to be a bigger nightmare of a different sort. Yes I am claiming my voice, and feel far better off for it. Thanks TW.

  7. Imma point this out one more time:
    Food, clothing and shelter are provided by ORPHANAGES as well as JAILS and PRISONS.
    'nuff said ;)

    re: Anon above and Food Issues: IMO, you nailed it. I was dxd. with what is now known as "Failure to Thrive" as an infant. My MN "Mother" was a medical professional and I also had a 26 mo. older Nsis so it's not as if my MN "Mother" didn't have OJT AND OJT, yk? ("The Heir and the Spare" kind of mentality with my MN "Mother.") Also, there was NO PPD involved here, to be sure, OK? My Dad became so concerned about my listlessness he bought me to the Pediatrician who told him I was starving and to feed me what ever I wanted when ever I wanted. Dad did exactly that and instructed the Household Help to do the same regardless of his "wife's wishes, stated, screamed or otherwise." I've experienced starvation at various times through out my life. I came from a very affluent family-long story, but typically this occurred when I was shipped off somewhere, ex: to a camp several states away from home for the entire summer when I was 5 and my parents "did Europe"-this was in the '50's, so no technology etc. The counselors were all Quebecois and I didn't speak a word of French. I returned to that camp, which I loved for a few summers and at times the food was not plentiful so I starved again. Camp was taken from me a few years later-I don't know why, but it wasn't food related: Of that, I am sure. I learned never to ask questions. I would, for example be notified by my MN "Mother" I was leaving for some place the next day or day after-I was the little kid you saw wandering through an airport alone. In those days flying was a big deal and I had a bunch of those little gold wings the stewardesses gave children flying alone. I never knew who was suppose to pick me up on the other end. Retrospectively, I wouldn't have been hard to "find" as I was the only child departing the plane at the destination. The only advantage to this was my MN "Mother" made sure I had new clothes that fit-to impress who ever was on the other end. Excuse me, I digress ;) My MN "Mother" was very, very "resourceful" in ridding herself of her kids under the guise of "good for her," "broaden her horizons" and my favorite, "PERSONAL ENRICHMENT"-bwhahahaha! (<gallows humor on that one!) As an adult, I starved secondary to poverty here in the "Land of Plenty." My very affluent MN "Mother" who my Dad divorced about a decade before was well aware of my poverty and my willingness to work-hard. However, I don't control the economy. She made no effort to assist in ANY way. I believe this was "pay back" for my refusal to move back to her area or participate in her on-going jihad towards my Dad during their nasty divorce. I paid for that until I NC'd about a decade later.
    I lost contact with my Dad and S/M for a number of years-my MN "Mother" was ABSOLUTELY instrumental in that event: They were horrified by my appearance when I finally found them. I flew to meet them where they were residing at the time and when I got off the plane, Dad burst into tears-I thought it was because he was so happy to see me, as I was to see him AND my lovely S/M, Honey. Honey told me later Dad thought I was dying because I was so horribly thin.
    The effects of malnutrition still manifest today even though I'm an old widow. In my daily life, I have to remind myself to eat at least once a day- anything, as long as I eat. It's as if the "connection" between hunger and my brain has been broken: I never actually feel "hungry."
    Your room mate is fortunate you get it: How I wish I had some other AC's to speak with in my younger years! Best wishes to all of you, and Peep, I hope it's OK and I have not stepped on a boundary by responding to Anon above; I'm sure you will respond as well.