Tuesday, May 27, 2014

The First Time I went No Contact

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The first time I went "no contact" I didn't know what no contact was but I disappeared from my family for around three years. Just like a domestic violence victim hiding from an abusive ex-husband, I went into hiding.

I was twenty one years old and went POOF! leaving false flag information of moving to a different town east when my actual town of residence was west-ward.

I knew I was the scapegoat too since my journal of 1989 still in my possession states...

"I am the black sheep of the family, they use me as a scapegoat."

This was during college but soon I would disappear from them.

Was that a normal thing to do? Even therapists at the time were in shock that things went so far. My year of student teaching and later while living at home was a nightmare. Days that lasted from 7:30 am to 11:00 pm, were not smart, but at that point in my life, self-care was not part of the picture.

My parents wanted rent even though student teaching didn't pay anything whatsoever. This meant working basically a double day-student teaching plus telemarketing at night with a weekend job latched on too to meet all my bills. Lesson plans for hundreds of students also were necessary. With no rest, this was also the time my health started to break where asthma, breathing problems and migraine headaches came in full force. My weight was getting harder to control though, the start of the huge weight gain was 4 years away.

My abuse worsened when I went home for that year and half at the end of my college sojourn. They were angry about money they had borrowed for part of my college education even though my mother used a lot of that loan money for shopping. In those days, pre-insurance and lawsuit payoff-my parents weren't as well off and decided to blame me. My brother was in the same college too on their dime totally just a year ahead of me but for some reason I was the focus of their ire. With my cafeteria job over every semester and summer jobs, many of the bills were covered by me including some dorm bills. The me of today wouldn't do college again, but would have exited their world upon high school graduation and gone to Vo-Ed in high school. The pound of flesh for every dollar was not worth it. My suburban high school drumming on the college dream had done me a great disservice.

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My rage-filled father screamed and yelled daily and even threatened me with violence. His anger and hostility was always present but that year it was upped a few notches. He didn't know I could hear him talking about me through a heating vent in the corner upstairs bedroom I rented for 120 dollars a month. Shouts of "that prima-donna is a burden around my neck", cuss words I can't write here, and that he wished I was dead. The fear alone led me to barricade my door at times. My mother voiced her agreement. Often their conversations centered solely on their superiority, and everyone else's failings including trashing people they smiled in front of at their respective offices.

My mother would egg my father on, complaining about me, getting him to grow more angry. At times I feared homelessness as they threatened to throw me out or destroy my things. The criticisms flowed, "You're too fat, too messy, too weird, too ugly, too slow, have your nose in a book too much.". I think back to some of those years, and know this year where my college friends had moved home, where my future no longer seemed as bright as it did sitting in class when I started having a life-long problem with depression. What would the outcome otherwise be for someone who had no love in their life? One close college friend who I still have weekly phone contact with to this day, literally kept me alive, as we called each other crying, wondering why our families hated us and nothing was ever good enough.

My mother and sister worsened in their symbiotic narcissism and joined together to call me a "loser" and discussed my faults openly while planning my sister's $25,000 plus wedding. She was never yelled at or abused for the costs of her wedding which actually was more then any money given for my college. This was the one I was left out of where they told me I was too fat to be in the wedding party and that the pictures would be messed up. There was no celebrating of my college graduation. One thing that will happen with scapegoats is their achievements will be ignored as well.

This is the year that my low status in the family was intact as those two poured out every negative emotion on me. Looking back I look at the rejection of my sister, and how my mother instigated it telling her I was not good enough for her. A pattern got set for years that was never broken with too many wasted tears on my part where my sister showed no emotions. I hadn't yet admitted to myself what she had become. Now I have. Back then I still loved her, but it was love wasted on someone who could not love just like my mother.

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 If I had not been large and standing up to my father, who knows how bad things would have gotten for me. They were angry that I seemed to be having difficulty finding a regular teaching job this being the recession of the early 90s. Student teaching would end and somehow I would scrounge through managing to graduate from college. I would return just to sleep even doing all my eating away from their home because of the constant barrage of complaints, criticisms and screaming. Working three-four jobs consisting then of day care, substitute teaching, restaurant work and factory temp jobs, I saved every penny knowing another better car and money were needed to escape. Escaping was my focus. I knew I had to survive, emotionally and even physically.


It was very hard to try and maintain confidence as a teacher in the class room, one ding on a review was for lack of confidence but no wonder! It was weird to maintain classrooms even later in rough inner city schools where substitutes were considered cannon fodder then going home and being abused. There was no more hitting because few years earlier, my father had started to punch me in the arm and being a few inches taller then him, I grabbed his arm and wrenched it behind his back and said, "You aren't going to hit me anymore".  So my abuse was all emotional, and verbal with narcissistic game playing added in but that was bad enough.  Unlike some ACON's, my knowledge of being abused was there but I was in denial about it's severity. The fog still surrounded me. I simply did not know what normal was.

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The insults never ended. Being midsized around 70lbs overweight at the time, my weight was made fun of, I was offered money to lose and look normal and so I would get a husband like my sister. My father would threaten to pack me away to the convent because I was "too ugly and weird for any man to want to marry me" and would state, "You better lose weight to get a better  job!".  Another time when cleaning the basement out with him on one of my rare days off, he would approach me and say, "I hate your personality, it's awful.". I think back to that time wishing I had fought back more, the feeling was mutual after all. My life was one of nothing but criticism. In college, I carried a 3.4 GPA, worked, stayed out of trouble. What would have this family had done to someone who slide even more through the cracks? They deserved a crackhead as an offspring for all their whining and abuse.

My chosen career field of art education was insulted, "art hippie, you arty farty!" and there was a day I brought home paintings from college where I remember my mother and father saying "Your paintings are ugly." The class I did the paintings in, I received a B+/A-  One of these paintings I would sell years later for a hand-sewn wedding dress that was valued over a 1000 dollars. My love for art was a place of salvation for me, a place of refuge, they tried to even take that away but failed.

Even my brother had one of his moments with my father in the garage, standing up to him to end the physical abuse we both experienced for years. However even with this I still felt physically afraid especially of my father. I was not treated like a girl at all and never protected. There was no proms, or Daddy-daughter dances in my life but housework, fixing cars, raking and digging holes in the yard with my brother. Next to the mother who never bought me a dress or showed me how to paint my nails or do make-up, feminine things were left for nice, sweet petite girls not me. I never went to any school dance or had a formal dress bought for me or went on a date in high school or had any friends for that matter outside of my freshman bowling league. I was too abused.

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My father never touched my mother, he wouldn't dare but she stood by and even joined in on the physical abuse pulling strings to increase his rages. They never beat us enough for any of us to be hospitalized, they had to keep their upper middle class life and jobs intact, but being hit was at least a weekly occurrence. My father until I stood up to him even into late high school had no problem with pinching me hard or kicking me in the butt to make one of his points. His eyes would shine and show glee upon humiliating others. His perfectionism and other traits were extreme, to this day I would peg him as one of the most miserable people on the face of this earth. Ironically he'd go to work with a sweet smile on his face, all his employees loved him, but no one knew what happened behind closed doors. Mr. Rogers at work and Hitler at home.  He was Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, same as his psychopathic, narcissistic wife. Both prided themselves on their hardness and ability to "get over" and disdained empathy and sensitivity as weaknesses.

I did start standing up for myself in college. Both narcissistic parents would complain and say, "We don't know what that college did to change you but it changed you for the worse". I went from quiet, withdrawn, beating down and afraid to finally talking back a bit. Rebellion for ACONS isn't always a bad thing, for many of us it means survival and drawing one's boundaries. I didn't drink or party or date or go looking for fights but I started fighting back against the parents who saw nothing positive in me whatsoever.  Cipher-hood for me would have meant absolute destruction. It also means I did not become a replica of my Aunt Scapegoat who in essence never left home, living next door to my grandmother in a broken down trailer into her 50s. She is still there. This is when I began my "goth" years, though I toned the dress down at jobs to keep employed. I awaited the day though where a good job as a teacher and independent life would "save" me but considering the health and financial problems that awaited, maybe it's better I didn't know at the time.

A few months after the grand production of my sister's elaborate wedding, one day I came home from work, and found a box in the mail addressed to me. It was from a company known for knickknacks. I was suspicious opening it because I had not ordered anything. Opening the box, I found a paper within it, and saw that it was addressed to me, and a credit card number I did not recognize in my name.

Then I realized, I had sent away for a credit card in the mail a few months earlier!

My mother had taken the credit card when it arrived in the mail, and used it without my knowledge. At the time I had forgotten about my application thinking I had been turned down.

So my mother had stolen my identity!

Calling the credit card company, I found out over $1700 dollars had been charged under my name. No one asked for this financial help, no one talked to me saying "We are short on funds could you help us out?"

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I knew then I had to leave and do it quick. I was employed and had some money saved. I was too afraid of my parents to report her. The statute of limitations is long up. I confronted her and she said because of the money borrowed for some of my college, she said, "You owe me!". Crying I said, "Why did you lie to me or just not ask?" But she refused to respond. She never would apologize for this or anything else in her life. My father simply refused to believe she did it even with the evidence in front of his face and simply threatened me.

I took a day off from substitute teaching and went to go rent a room in a woman's boarding house in a neighboring town. By then I had my juvenile home art teaching job too which was second shift and weekends, part of the recreation program for the incarcerated youth. I choose to commute a distance three times a week, rather then even live in the same town of my parents.

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The day I moved out, my mother was at work but my father went ballistic, screaming and yelling. Trying to tell me I couldn't even take my clothes because he had "bought them" actually by that time, all the clothes outside of gifts were purchased by me. Screaming about a blue chair, he had thrown away but decided I was "stealing", my escape was very frightening. I ran out to my car, that was thankfully mostly packed with him cussing me out, grabbing at me and throwing pant cans at me, some full, some empty and clattering on the drive-way. I was lucky to get away without being hurt.

I wouldn't talk to any of them for three years.

Why did I go back?

The therapists I voluntarily sought out, even though they admitted I was seriously abused told me to reconcile with my parents, the pastors--UU at the time--I'm now a born again Christian told me to "forgive" and let by gones be by gones. I heard that my parents were "under stress", to "honor" my parents, to realize "everyone makes mistakes", to "not hold grudges". 

Other relatives joined the foray, telling me "that's just the way they are", "you have to accept them for who they are". "You don't want to live your life angry do you?" Others told me it was simply wrong to cut off one's parents no matter how badly they had treated you.

I never heard anything about narcissistic personality disorder, or how severe emotional abuse can affect a person life long or about protecting myself or boundaries.  For years I would blame myself. I was a "bad daughter", "cost too much", "shouldn't have gone to college", "didn't get along with people", "didn't make enough money", "messed up the relationships". I worried that I was everything they told me I was, unworthy, fat, lazy, and worse. For many years I dreamed of the day I would be thin or average sized and have great job making lots of money where my parents would finally love me. That was a wasted dream.

But I had enough fire in me at a young age to cut the chains, once upon the time. This time I will stay free.

Looking back on this all from the vantage of a 40 something, I am literally horrified. The abuse I suffered was immense and I believe high on the scale. To be frank, I lay at their feet the breaking of my health and almost the breaking of my spirit.  Keep in mind, I was getting already sick, in and out of the hospital for severe asthma, showing terrible signs of PCOS. My periods completely stopped. Today I have faced their cruelty, medical neglect, and devaluement of me as a person head on. There was no excuse for the way I was treated and the me of today, wishes I could go back and hug young me and say, "You don't deserve this, stay far away from these people they only wish you harm. The word family means nothing when you are treated this way."


  1. It's funny (not haha funny) that as she verbally abused you with one face about being useless, she is using your credit card privileges and wrecking your credit with the second face. My mother was like yours only different. She would reel in her insanity in public and also to a degree in private. She showed restraint in private only because she was usually running a game behind the other family members in the room and didn't want THEM to know what a conniving, faithless bitch, she really was so they would drop their defenses and she could con them too. Only later did she join forces with my first wife and I became like a mouse between two cats. She could show her true self to my ex because what she wanted from my ex was the same thing my ex wanted from her. And that was to turn me into a human pinata.

  2. Yes it was totally two-faced. I wonder how much of the charges were done for my sister's wedding too, but just left home and never got the itemized list. She told me she would keep paying on it at the time, but the betrayal was enough. My credit would be ruined from my future poverty, medical bills, and job lay-offs. I think both our mothers were alike. I was the human piñata and trash can between father and mother. I remember the lies she told him to get him turned against me. She succeeded. Mine worn multiple masks. I told one high school friend who knew my parents and got along with them well how severely abused I was and what happened. I am glad she believed me but she was in shock saying "Your parents acted like such nice people." Mine presented a different face to different people depending on what game she was busy running. Some she literally kissed their butts so they basically worshipped the ground she walked on. It sounds like both were masters of triangulation and manipulation and turning people against one another. I remember my mother's looks of pleasure when other people got angry at me or rejected me. I did get hovered too by the way during this first NC.

  3. Once my mother let her mask slip there was no going back. Not from my end but from hers...She knew that I knew her for what she really was so it was easier to find new people to con than to try and convince me that she was a trustworthy parent. Which shows the value she placed on her relationship with me. For her it was easier to flush our so called life together down the toilet than to pick up a phone and commit the smallest act of contrition.

  4. I find it interesting she let you go once you knew what she was. I told mine basically I knew what she was. This is one reason I don't get all the hoovering though maybe that is finished since I confronted her with the question of how did I get a genetic disease no one else has/had in the family? Yes they'd rather look for new targets to con. I've wondered who the new scapegoat would be too. I know mine will never say she is sorry or will admit anything. Mine knows I see through her too. I am glad you got away!

  5. I didn't go to my own graduation because my (pretty wealthy, narc) father didn't want to pay $60 for me to rent a gown and I had no money.

    The first time my sister and me tried to run away, she was 9 and I was 5. We didn't go very far; we packed a backpack each and walked to the end of the small town we lived in before my sister decided we should go back.

    When he died, I had to tell people my father worked with that he was dead and a couple of them sent long emails about what a great person he was - so I feel for you about Mr Rogers and Hitler! I ignored the emails.

    Thanks for writing about your memories; it helps me a lot in understanding and believing my own. When the best I can usually say is 'well there wasn't THAT much physical violence so was it really abuse?' I should know something really was wrong.

    1. Sorry your high school made you rent a gown. I think they were free for us, I am sure I wouldn't have been able to go if it did too. I ran away acouple times as a kid too, remember one time with the red wagon and having friend's parents take me home. When my father died, hundreds of people showed up from his workplace and said what a nice guy he was, "Your father was such a nice man!" Little did they know. I nodded and smiled and said nothing.

      I am glad my post was able to help you. Remember the narcs set things up for the abused to deny the abuse that happened.

  6. These monsters all seem to follow the same "playbook." While I was a child whenever NM and NS stole money from me, they would accuse me of stealing from them. As an adult, when NM stole large amounts of money from me [while I was struggling as a single mom, living in her home, already paying her rent] she told me that I "owed her."

    The closest I ever got to an apology from them was a heinous insult. When I would ocassionally catch them in a lie about their abuse that even they could not slither out of, I was scathingly told, " I guess it's my fault, No wonder you turned out the way you did."

  7. Yes they do follow the same playbook. I had to be careful of my childhood piggy bank even. Even when I delivered newspapers as a child, I knew there was something "funny" about my mother's math and what we were being paid. She took charge of that too. That had to be hard living with your mother as a single mom, and being stolen from. Yes I got the whole "you owe me speech". The year my credit card was taken, they were making at least 100,000 a year. Which that long ago was still some real income. I certainly in my life would never see anything like it. This is why I am so against the college programming, the student loan servitude, doesn't even reach the heights of narc parent servitude. Together they are a beast.

    Yes I never got an apology either. Not once in my entire life. They were superior and never did anything wrong. I would hear that exact same line too that you did. There was no appealing to people like this ever. I hope you are away now.

  8. Please give yourself credit for even trying to get out at 21, peep. A lot of people don't figure it out for years and still struggle with NC and making that decision even when they DO have all the info that's available now, yk?
    IMO, in reality they NC us-even in the event we actually "formalize" it when ya think about it: For our entire lives they've made no secret of their distain if not hatred for us. They should be neither surprised nor unhappy when we NC. What would you expect? You kick your "kid" to the curb for years, don't be surprised when they get the message, get out of the proverbial gutter you tossed them in (again) or out from under the bus you tossed them under (again), dust themselves off and start living a Life instead of a Life Sentence.
    The further you get into NC, the "wider" your lens becomes on your experiences. When you're right in the middle of it, your ability to really see, understand and act on self-preservation is deeply compromised. That anyone gets out at all IMO is something of a miracle. It takes a tremendous amount of courage to face painful facts/reality and then act on that knowledge when you're just.so.beat.down. Once you actually NC/get OUT, give yourself TIME. LOTS OF IT. Like any major life transition, getting use to living free from CBs marks a major shift in your entire out-look and ways of doing/being. Take your time. IMO, it's the best gift you'll ever give yourself. After awhile if you don't just love it, you can always go back for more abuse ;) They don't change-you DO.
    It's impossible to garner any kind of self-respect when you allow your "family" to continue to stomp all over you-in the name of (most fundamentally) DNA.

  9. Thanks Tundra Woman, I appreciate that a lot. I think it is good I tried to get out at 21 too. I think if my health had held out [which affected the jobs] maybe I would have been okay and managed to stay away. I would go LC for the next series of years but yes even that young, I knew something was wrong.

    Yes NC is hard even at an advanced age.

    I think they should not be shocked when we say enough of this. I know if not for my disabilities and needing help--[no one paid my rent or basic living but am talking about when I needed some help years ago for car related stuff] I know I probably would have broken away sooner. We are formalizing the lack of a relationship that there always was. I realized in many ways she was always a stranger.

    In my case, while they threw a few crumbs to keep the puppy coming back or merely tolerated me on occasion, and wanted to "keep track of me", I never was really included in their lives and was ignored, tossed away and abused so no they should not be surprised that I got up brushed myself off and walked away. Last year when I was so sick and not one bothered to attempt to come my way? Why was I wasting my time? NC is affecting me oddly. I have been thinking about things I have not in years and probably facing quite a bit head on. Like things I suppressed? Maybe at the time to survive. For young ACONs admitting that one's family really does hate you or wants you to die or be destroyed, really is psychologically kind of too heavy. I know I am dealing with a lot recently that my mind set aside for years and years. One odd thing one close friend now deceased, told me she felt like I was "sleeping". She said I was asleep in a psychological sense, and in many ways she was right, those were my 30s, being married, my husband steadily employed, church and volunteer work but still dealing with serious health stuff where I had to fight to live but I did not want to face painful facts about my family or the abuse, back then and was LC, trying to keep my head above water. But even the abuse that came then, I paid a price for. I agree it takes courage to escape, and to finally admit to yourself what they are. I do feel things are majorly shifting for me. Odd at such an advanced age but better late then never. Thanks for saying to give myself time. I'm 10 months in with the NC letter contact and nearly another slip up, but I am taking things slow. I saw others in the family that never did escape and who were destroyed. I am glad I was not one of them. I thought to myself as I went NC, I want dignity and respect. That is the message I tell myself to maintain it. Thanks Tundra Woman :)

  10. Oh, peep, I smiled at your reference to your "advanced age"! I'm an old widow broad, went through this decades ago and still occasionally I'll have a "Memory Bubble" that pops up, something I've not thought about since the day it happened. The most recent one involved the first day of first grade at the ripe old age of 5. I have no idea what precipitated this memory and it wasn't anything particularly traumatic, just another day/event in CB Parental Looney-ville.
    I've given far more thought about growing up CB-Parented in the last few years than I believe I ever have. Part of that is Age and Stage of Life, no doubt, as well as what you spoke to in terms of how busy we are in those younger years trying to just survive as well as the daily demands of adult life. There isn't a lot of time-or energy-left over during this period of our lives to deeply contemplate our experiences-which in any event had been strongly discouraged from Day One. Another thought related to this experience of allowing your "lens" to naturally develop a Wide Angle View is this response I was given if I even DARED to question even a minor confusing event: "When you're older, You'll UNDERSTAND." I wonder how many ACs heard that as well?!
    OK. I'm "older." Older than dirt-which was how my "mother" regarded me. Far older than when this "reason" was hissed at me. Far older than the age of the "mother" who was hissing this AT me. And guess what? I SURE DO "understand" and my understanding places her in an even more horrific, appalling light as time and age evolve. There's *nothing* wrong with my memory which was always a problem for HER in her attempts to gas light or re-write history on me, pull a "Clear Entry" move or hit the "Delete" key.
    When she could use my memory as a Bragging Right, it was expropriated for her edification: When it was "inconveniently TRUE" it became her mortal enemy. Nonetheless, it remained intact.
    Peep, time doesn't "heal all wounds." Instead, it HONORS them. It celebrates the Lessons Learned necessary to survive under CB Parental Abuse and how we can use them now in our every day lives. It gives us even more awareness of the inherent resources we have *always* had but were never allowed to even glimpse never mind fully develop. (Think of your art, your creativity-that's a GIFT, peep.)
    Would we have chosen this life with these parents? OHHELLNO! But there it is. Again, that you've even gotten free peep is a testament to your spirit and just how tenacious, how resourceful, how enduring the human spirit truly is.

    1. es my NC has bought "memory bubbles" galore. LOL about our age. I have remembered even more loony stuff. Yes when younger I just kind of closed it out. I was just trying to stay alive many of my years since my health problems were so severe. I didn't have energy or even the strength to face some of this stuff head on. I repressed a lot to survive. The human mind will do that not wanting to fafce the depths it is. Of course being around shallow narcs, introspection and deep contemplation is not advanced but totally discouraged. One is not supposed to ask too many questions. I heard that too when you are OLDER you will understand. I sure did. Course I probably was already OLDER then them in some of the ways that count, as narcs don't grow.

      Yes I am sure you were OLDER too. I was an old lady watching a screaming 2 year old brat that always had to have her way every minute and everyone else's attention on her.

      I think about how mine responded to my NC letter listing her actions stating, just didn't happen, and that I am liar. What a cop-out. I am thinking about now how years of that probably affected me as a child, always being told I was lying, was wrong, was stupid, was crazy. Even GOOD stuff they would diminish, like art, wanting to read books and the rest.

      I hope time will honor things too. Definitely. Thanks for pointing out my art Tundra Woman. :) Yes I have developed some gifts even living in such a pyschic cesspool. They hated that I was an artist too and hate everything creative.

      Yes I am happy I have gotten free. I know I must stay free too. :) I think the fact I survived all this points to the human spirit as well and for other ACONs as well who got out and realized what they were and are, and kept their souls intact.

  11. My dad murdered someone, and they never caught him, cause no one knew about it.I had amnesia for so many years, so I did not remember for years. Thank god, I realize my sister is a narcissist, but we have to communicate cause of "family business." Otherwise, I would have nothing to do with her; she has "OCD-PERSONALITY DISORDER,--and Extreme-Perfectionism." I had to diagnosis her.She barely is human.Your parents could be sadistic murderers in the past.Take it from me, its entirely possible, they have the profile...my dad was one, and it is more common than you think.

    1. That is horrible anon! I am sorry he never got caught. Trauma will bring people amnesia. That had to be horrible for you. Yes many narcs will breed narcs--the GCs, or others. I have noticed some narcs seem to be extreme perfectionists, I am not sure if they go wholly to the OCD route. OCD people usually worry and go back to check, Narcs never worry but expect everything to be extreme perfect and abuse those who don't dot every i. I find those with no consciences to be barely human. Who knows what they could be capable of. I am wary of people who do not feel, can't be afraid and never cry. Yes I think there are more psychopaths and others out there more then people could even realize. I will pray for you, Anon.

  12. Some of those "monster parents" get caught by one of their kids, even early, and the kid already has so much abuse & hate, the kid kills the parent. It just happened in Oregon, the adult kid & his dad got into argument, and the adult kid killed his dad. they were both violent, so he went on trial here. there are lots of abusive, even murdering parents, here in Lane County Oregon. We always got the scum& jerks, hippies,druggies, ect. "I HATE EUGENE OREGON". Wish I could leave can't afford it.

    1. While I think in a few cases, the kid is a psychopath, or has other problems and is the sole perpertrator, in many cases when I heard those cases, I think there had to be severe abuse that set the stage. It seems I have read a lot of cases of abusive murdering parents coming from Oregon, I do not know why that is. I think the West is seen as a freer place where narcs and sociopaths hang out, you know the "whole go West young man thing", this is why the West Coast has the most serial killers, and also it looks like the most abusive dangerous parents.

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  14. I think they destroyed a lot of lives. And if you told them to their face, that they are a MN, they won't accept it. There is nothing else in their body but evil. I've finally accepted the truth about my MN mother, that person that screams at me, that only has good intentions towards me, actually hates me to death.

    I'm not quite believing there is a choice. Otherwise, there would be narcissists that are making good choices and that I can't wrap my brain around. We know they are choosing because they shift gears, when necessary to keep up the BS. But, that only explains that they know the difference between right and wrong. Evil people that know they do wrong and like it.

    They can have this beautiful little baby, and to them it is just another mirror or they squash it. My life was such a mess, because someone made a choice. Before my awakening, I had visions of evil. I was watching horror movies with hauntings, and I thought someone has done this to me. Why was I such a target for every bully? Why can't I make my own decisions, I can't trust myself? Wasn't this me doing this? No, somewhere deep inside me I knew the truth. This was caused by an evil entity with a womb.

    They are pure evil, there is not other way to explain it.

  15. Yes I believe these people destroy lives. All I have to do is look at my Aunt Scapegoat to see a life totally bombed out and absolutely destroyed. Although my life was brought to it's knees I was able to lay claim to Christian faith, friends and my interests and causes.


    That woman served as a warning to me. I fought back and she never did.

    I have told my directly she has no empathy and is a narcissist and has no feelings. I am not sure if I got a chance to tell her she is a sociopath. She even whined once, Fivehundredpoundpeep says I am "disordered". Just the way she said it, kind of like, why should anyone listen to her, it was really truly sick and I knew self examination was forever off the table.

    I am glad you were able to accept the truth about your mother. I was able to accept the truth about mine. It took some doing. We push it away not wanting to believe the worse. I know for a fact mine hated me from very early on. That was written in one of the last letters. She of course called me a liar. Ironic, she was just proving my case.
    Yes they know how to put on appearances of "right" so yes this tells us they know exactly what they are doing. I believe mine derived absolute pleasure from seeking to quash me and realized with time she was very happy I was so sick and impoverished. Often the SGs are set up. I am so sorry you went through this too and your life ended up a mess. Mine did too sadly.

    When I was young before I became a born again Christian, I watched and read horror constantly. I was living in a horror show with wicked people. So wonder I watched and read those type of books. Evil surrounded me.

    I think I knew the truth inside too. Even spiritually it would influence me as I sought after God, asking Him to rescue me.

    They are pure evil, there is not other way to explain it.

    There are people in this world who are wicked and have no consciences. They made their choice for it too.

  16. Yes, I'm sorry to read that your health has suffered over it. Its just so confusing, literally insidious this thing that has happened to us.

  17. I have a question for you.

    I looked for a way to contact Lisette on her blog, which is where I learned about this topic, but there is no contact info listed for her and her comments are closed. And you made reference to your blog on a comment on her blog, so I thought I'd ask you.

    It all comes down to acting vs reacting. It seems that reading articles and the comments from MN survivors that the only real acting they do is to go no-contact and often that is not enough protection. Otherwise, they seem to be stuck in reactive mode, which means the MN retains the initiative, and the attacks continue.

    I am not a ACON so it's possible that there may be reasons why this is so, why the ACON does not seem to fight back; to stop reacting and act. You know their tactics, and their weaknesses, so you should(?) know how to strike back, and win. So why not stop the MN in their tracks?

    That's my question, and to me it is the obvious question. Why not destroy the MNs that tried so hard to destroy you, and will continue to try to destroy you?

    1. I want to contact Lisette too, so if you find an email tell me. Lisette if you see this please email me too.

      I know to outside observers, No Contact looks like a surrender doesn't it? I have the kind of personality where it is very difficult to do just so you know. With most of us we have been fighting for years and always losing. This was true of me. I spent literal years and years trying to get the others to hear my side of the story, and always being thrown under the bus. Even for a year before I went No Contact I sought to strengthen some family relationships before giving up on them. I am in place with brother now where things are ebbing away. No contact is not perfect, it can bring pain of it's own. I know for a fact mine has discarded and devalued me and is continuing intense smear campaigns and controlling of others to throw me over board. My dealing with rejection is a life long problem and seems to have gotten so intense outside of a few friends, I am learning to go more inward and accept my life the way it is.

      I even have question mine at times knowing my literal costs could be real, but there are spiritual aspects of my NC where I feel God Himself wanted me to clear out.

      Even knowing her tactics, I did not win. Mine is a sociopath and so much more talented then an Aspie at manipulating people. I was doomed to lose that battle from the start. She also can literally buy people why I have nothing to offer to shallow people who only care about the material. If I had won the Lotto or had life circumstances change, maybe I would have had a chance but then in that case why would I want people around me, I had to "buy"? I am not my mother.

      I consider this blog my "fighting back". They don't know about it YET for my own safety reasons, but one day they will. Maybe one day I would be able to get more of my story out. If the opportunity arises for justice in a court room [adoption, lack of medical history etc] I would also grab it.

      As for "destroying her", the bible says "Vengeance is mine saith the Lord" , I will have to hand that matter over to God. I know trying to "fight" the insane will do nothing but toss me down in the mud too. The best thing with evil is to run as far away from it as you can. You can make a stand but you will never bring someone without a conscience to repentance. ACONs know that in this world, the sociopaths are believed, not the scapegoats. They brainwash others into accepting their stories too. One day they will face what they did, but it will be at God's behest in most cases.

    2. No, I don't see NC as a surrender. If I was in your shoes, I'd do the same thing. But in my case, it wouldn't end there.

      What I am saying is that people are fighting, or not fighting, on the MNs terms, not on the victims terms. A strong defense does not win wars. And to me, as an outsider that can only read of others experiences, this is a war.

      I can see where we differ, You are a christian, I am not, but I used to be. How can anyones goal be to get one of these monsters to repent, or even worry about their repenting, since they don't have a conscience and see no need to repent? Can a perfect MN "god" repent?

      According to the bible, who is the one that leads a person to repentance? Who is the one responsible for that? It's not you.

      I will just say this. If a person allows a MN to influence them to throw an innocent person under the bus. without looking into the situation themselves to verify it, they are idiots. Unfortunately, there are a lot of idiots out there.

      Saying the "flying monkeys" are brainwashed removes their own responsibility and allows them to claim victim status, while still getting the bananas the MN doles out to her little monkeys. That's a win-win situation for them. That, IMHO, is not acceptable

      From the article below it says "No amount of reasoning, logic, crying, begging, screaming and yelling, arguing, being nice to the N, showing her love,...."

      Then don't reason, cry, use logic etc. That's not hard to understand. If it doesn't work, then don't do it. Find out what does word, and do that.

      One thing I have learned in these 50 years is that a battle cannot be fought and won on the enemies terms. And IMHO this is a battle, and it is being fought on the enemies terms.

      And, isn't it true that NC is not a real defense, since the MN and their lackeys can or will stalk their target until they find him or her? Ir seems that NC is delaying the inevitable, depending on what the MN chooses to do and what effort to expend to find him or her again so the abuse can continue.

      I see this as a murderer breaking into someones home. The defenses (locks) have failed. Now what does a person do? Call the cops? They will come ASAP and clean up the mess and cart the body away in a body bag. Can't run, can't hide. Can't pray it away. It's fight or die. But again, this is coming from an outsider, not an ACON. But as an outsider, what I find disturbing in addition to the abuse inflicted by MN is the lack of a good defense and an effective offense against these rats.

    3. HI I am glad you do not see NC as a surrender. What else do you think you would do?

      Yes my faith does impact choices of what to do. But what is to be gained seeking revenge on a Narc even on the secular basis? Courts and jail are not fun places. The narc "wins" then too.

      Now some wish there were changes in the laws where one could seek some damages at a much later date for emotional and other narc abuses. I think the statute of limitations for child abuse is a joke, given that three years into early adulthood, it takes far longer for the fog these types put someone in to dissipate not to name all the Stockholm Syndrome stuff and inner lies they got the abused to believe as being at fault.

      The fact of the matter is these monsters will NOT repent. You could go full bore and it won't phase them one bit. I remember when I was still in contact writing the letters, screaming and yelling. NOTHING touched them. Nothing at all. The one thing that did in the case of my mother public embarrassment, she was always able to turn against me and play martyr. This is possible even if my blog is found one day or there is something else published. She will convince the others I am "crazy".

      They cannot repent. I religiously consider the malignant narcs of my family biblical reprobates. Hell awaits. A few of the lesser narcs and others, may have the potential to repent but most do not. Scripturally one does not have to lead a reprobate anywhere, they are "seared" and "handed over" already.



    4. People who throw someone under a bus, along with a narc, are enabling evil. I believe one day they will be facing the music for their cowardice.

      I agree with you, that the flying monkeys are not innocents. They made their choice for wickedness. Thanks for bringing that up. If they love the bananas [ie money and present] more then their own sister or relative, then that says it all.

      What works with narcs?

      It's called submit or don't. I chose not to submit and walked away.

      I don't think any battles in this earth can be won with them. Outside of exposing their evils and speaking out, there is nothing to be done except in staying away from them as far as possible. They know how to manipulate people, have more power in our system, have the money--usually. One thing if you wrestle with the alligators you can end up in the mud too and splattered with it. There are bible verses that tell Christians to depart from the wicked. "Fighting" them in carnal fashions just digs the hole deeper. These are types who are used to winning and will do so at any cost. If you play with sociopaths, the normal restraints and laws on average people with consciences do not apply.

      I don't think every narc "stalks" their target. Many when they see you are not coming back discard and devalue and move on to easier feeding grounds. Mine is not putting forth efforts to "get me back". The birthday cards is to keep up appearances. I know with the passage of time even those will ease off. She has hidden my departure from the others and mentioned me at a bare minimum if at all. I didn't matter to her when I was in contact and NC basically just ended the empty visits and shallow phone calls. [of course I have an "ignoring" type and not an "engulfing" type.]

      You are right there is a lack of a good defense. Many of us are trying to survive. I do wish some laws were changed but then how are they going to enforce even a secular law making people love their children, when they aren't even capable of the emotion? The statue of limitations should be extended for adult survivors especially under these circumstances. We don't always get justice in this world and have to wait on God for His.

      Romans 12:19 - Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but [rather] give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance [is] mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

    5. "HI I am glad you do not see NC as a surrender. What else do you think you would do?"

      That's a good question. It's one I may not be able to answer because we don't have the same backgrounds. All I can do is read others experiences to try to figure out what it is like to deal with MNs. Then I can come up with ideas that I think would work, but there may be considerations that I can't see or know because I wasn't raised by these creatures.

      Reading about this makes my blood boil. It makes me think murderous thoughts. But to be "wise as a serpent", I would use figurative fangs and not literal fangs, and do it for MY sake, because losing my freedom isn't worth it. And I would be as "harmless as a dove", because I go only after the guilty.

      If I was raised by these rats, I would know what sets them off. I would know exactly what buttons to push. And I would push them, incessantly, constantly and without mercy.

      If it was me, I would not go totally NC. All contact would be on my terms. I would push their buttons. If they hated my happiness, then by golly I'd show them my happiness! Even if I had to make it up. And when they strike back, then I know I hit my target. And I'd be happy! I would ignore their response and substitute my own, and feed it right back to them. It's called "reframing". I would get the initiative and I would keep it.

      I would make them fear me. I would make THEM break all contact and go into hiding, because to be in contact with me would mean even more pain for them.

      It seems that reading peoples experiences, they know what to do, because they know what sets the MN off, and they spent their childhoods doing everything they can to not set the MN off. But for some reason that I can't figure out, they wont do it back to the MN. It's not revenge, It's war.

      "This is possible even if my blog is found one day or there is something else published. She will convince the others I am "crazy". "

      Sure. I can see them doing that. There may be insufficient laws against child abuse, but there are also laws against libel and slander.

      "You are right there is a lack of a good defense. Many of us are trying to survive. I do wish some laws were changed but then how are they going to enforce even a secular law making people love their children, when they aren't even capable of the emotion? "

      I personally wouldn't depend on laws. I mentioned libel and slander, and they may be good tools to use if the opportunity arrives, but I wouldn't place my faith in the "just us" system.

      I think the lack of a good defense is something that can only be worked out by those that suffered because of these freaks, because they have first hand experiences and they know. Someone like me probably wouldn't help that much.

      This is where networking would help. To me, as an outsider, people write about the abuse in the articles and the comments, but they don't write about defenses against it. I get it that people need to know there are others out there that went thru things just as bad, or worse. but then what? What happens next?

      It's jot just a lack of defense. Going on the offensive seems to be really out of the question. And imho that keeps the initiative in the MNs control.

    6. I read an article once, wish I could remember where it was, [qs blog or another ACON blog?] where it discussed how there was no justice in this world for the ACON. The courts won't listen because too much time has passed for most who wake up. Society won't listen. Most of the families end up under the sway of the head sociopaths or narcs and dismiss you as the worthless scapegoat. So I understand what you mean by the lack of "defense".

      Any revenge has spiritual implications, and also worldly ones. Any ACON who seeks revenge and finds themselves in a jail cell for doing so, will have their laughing jeering narcs as a result doing fist bumps or telling people, "see I told you they were bad!" We do not want to sink to their level or become "wicked" like they are. The problem is what defenses are there? So far I have not come up with one that works. Fighting crazy can make a person crazy. With these narcs too, none of the usual rules apply, lying, cheating, stealing and maybe even the worse for some of them. How do you make people fear you who do not feel the emotion of fear? It simply does not happen. Mine are cold fish, very little to work with there. Press a button and nothing happens. That only actually works with those with a slight taint of humanity left.

      I know it is sad, ACONs all look like scared rabbits hopping away into rabbit holes to hide away from the big bad wolves but what other choice is there? Some of the bravest [or craziest LOL?] speak out, on blogs like this one and other venues, while others are silent in their hiding. I wish I had better answers. I do believe God will make it right in the end.

    7. "Any ACON who seeks revenge and finds themselves in a jail cell for doing so, "

      I never suggested doing that.
      I suggested the opposite. Don't do anything illegal.

      But, my ideas might not be everyones cup of tea. They might not be mean enough. As I look at this now, I am the type that would think "You tried so hard to destroy me and you failed and you continue to fail. Now it's my turn." And I would find a way.

      "ACONs all look like scared rabbits hopping away into rabbit holes to hide away from the big bad wolves"

      Not to me. It's entirely reasonable to fear predators with no conscience and get the BEEP away from them.

      If NC is the only choice, then do it. Why would anyone suggest differently? Is anyone out there stupid enough to think the brave people don't feel fear? Bravery is doing what has to be done. If that means NC is what has to be done, or maybe it means war, it depends on the person.

      "Some of the bravest [or craziest LOL?] speak out, on blogs like this one and other venues, while others are silent in their hiding."

      I used to think of narcissists as being just extremely irritating people to be around. I never found then "charming" or "glib" etc. Fingernails on a blackboard kind of irritating is how I saw them. Until I came across blogs that showed me I was wrong. So it is a very practical service you and others are doing and it will save lives. It probably already saved lives.

    8. I didn't think you were suggesting that, jut kind of thinking aloud. I agree about not doing anything illegal. I guess I wonder what ideas there are to "fight" back except in a court room. One thing with the worse malignants and sociopaths, everyone is on their side. They can manipulate people masterfully they have been practicing on all their lives. I want to ask you what your ideas would be? One thing I did that did not work was telling others what she had done and said. It just did not matter.

      Thanks for understanding those who run from the predators. I think with many of these narcs, NC is the only choice. I have lost so many battles with my NM, sometimes I am in awe but she doesn't think like I do. She isn't "held back" by conscience, guilt or softer feelings.

      I agree courage is feeling the fear and keeping on anyway. The most masterful narcs win people over in a heart beat. Some may be mean to scapegoats but be nice as pie to the rest of the world too at the same time.

      Reading ACON blogs helped me crawl out of the black hole, I hope this one can help others too. I want people who have suffered this to know they are not alone. I know this blog has a lot of themes-the whole standing up for fat people thing and also those abused by narcisstic parents.

  18. this applies too. I got this from rumblestripq blog:

    it's from Luke 17:3 ministries...

    "The Harsh Realities of Life With a Narcissist~ There is nothing we can do to change things. If we are going to stay in the relationship, it will always be what it is now. No amount of reasoning, logic, crying, begging, screaming and yelling, arguing, being nice to the N, showing her love, being patient, being understanding, pussy-footing around her, hiding things from her that we think might set her off, complimenting her, doing favors for her, supporting her, giving her money, walking on eggshells, going to therapy, talking it out, doing everything she tells us to do, etc, etc, will ever stop the abuse. In fact, all of these reactions just reinforce her bad behavior, because a REACTION (of any kind) is exactly what she wants from us.

    Consequences MAY work temporarily. When we enforce a consequence, the N may not do that exact misbehavior again, but she will do another one instead. Nothing works permanently, except No Contact.
    Repeat after me~ There is NOTHING I can do. It will ALWAYS be like this. Now, are you okay with that? Ready to live the rest of your life in a toxic relationship with a selfish, abusive narcissist or psychopath? Are you willing to waste the next five or ten years or more being continually upset, manipulated, gaslighted and mistreated, now that you know another five or ten years won't matter, because it will NEVER change? The only difference another five or ten years will make is that you will be five or ten years older. If you wake up one day ten years from now stuck in the same depressing, dismal situation, I guarantee you will look back and regret it. I should know~ I wasted 47 years trying to make it work. So, is it time to dump the loser, go No Contact, and start living with joy and freedom? This is the only thing within our power that we can do to change things and go on to live a healthy, peaceful life. It's our choice."

  19. Hi, My name is Hilary and I would like to chat more about this. Is there a way to contact you?

    1. Go to profile there is an email on there. Please write me. Sorry I saw this so much later.