Wednesday, February 24, 2016

Aunt Scapegoat Has Died

                                         picture by me....a sad desolate winter one.

It's sad. I wondered why her?

Aunt Scapegoat

My brother called this morning and told me she died yesterday. The details of her death seem fuzzy. Can I call a hospital and find out how she died? I was told it was a combination of things something to do with a hernia and she had a recent car wreck last month, but I don't know if the car wreck caused the hernia or what happened. Even the relatives who are on Facebook have been mum and no one has posted that she has died.

 I asked my brother if she lived in a nursing home or her trailer and he told me she still lived in her trailer. I was RIGHT about my mother holding power of attorney over her. Remember I had suspected my mother had grabbed guardianship over her.  What happened to her? Can someone advise me in finding out? Well that may be another dead end. I have to wait a day to even ask the cousins because I don't want to be the first one who informs them.  My brother seemed kind of like he only got what my mother told him.

I feel some guilt in that I had gone NC with her though more informally, I never made any formal pronouncements of it to her. Here I feel some huge regrets and was crying earlier, because I had thought of trying to call and contact her again and obviously I waited too late. There's no going back.

I tried for years to reach out to her though before. It was painful and because she was so controlled by my mother, and earlier on my grandmother, I failed multiple times before, and didn't want to go down that track. I had been hurt multiple times and didn't want to keep opening myself up to more pain. That's why I didn't try again. So the last time I saw her was in 2010 or 2011 when she was recovering from a heart valve surgery replacement and was at my mother's house recovering.  My husband reminded me, "You tried with her many times. She was so shut down."

At times it seems this world sucks, it seems the narcs raise their hands in victory while the narcs celebrate. They win, and their victims always lose. I had imagined reconciliation with Aunt Scapegoat, or something changing in the wind, where I could have reached her. Now it will never be. I feel helpless and hopeless. Why couldn't I do more? Why did I always have to be so broke? So empty-handed?

 I feel like the earth will close over someone and she will be forgotten. My brother told me she will be cremated unlike other relatives who got their $12,000 dollar coffin and a place in the family Catholic cemetery. No burials and tombstones for her like the other relatives, her memory will be wiped away. It is interesting to notice the different treatment of her in death then other relatives who got the big affair, even other relatives of limited financial means. I suppose this tells me her "importance" in the scheme of things, and I am creeped out because I said to my husband before, that if she died, they probably would cremate her and not give her a huge funeral like other relatives. {not that I agree with those either but hopefully you'll see what I mean}  My brother told me it's because she rejected Catholicism, in her case as an atheist. He told me they plan a memorial service in the spring. My mother is states away in Florida after all.

I googled her obit, and all that was written about her personally besides other relatives that had died, was this  "******** loved animals including her cats. A memorial service will be held later." It was one of the shortest obits in the history of mankind. I can tell my mother wrote it. That's how she summed up a sister she has had for 60 years. A life summed up in one sentence. She liked cats.

I got into it with my brother and reacted emotionally and told him one reason I went NC with our mother is because of what she said about Aunt Scapegoat. I talked about this in the Queen of Darkness article if you want to read the sordid details.

I cussed more on the phone then I have cussed in five years. I told him "You better take one real look at what your mother really is!" When I told him about what my mother said about Aunt Scapegoat, he was in shock. I don't know if I got his eyes opened or not. He said "Why didn't you tell me this before?" I said, "Because it seems you didn't believe me!" He then said, "But they never say things like that in front of me. I said "Of course not, why would they?" You think they want us allying together knowing what pieces of crap of they are?"

Then I went on and lost it, I'll edit out a few of my worse curse words I said. God forgive me for my language but I got emotional....."They treated this woman like shit her whole life".  They tortured her and treated her like she was nothing. They put her down and we spent our entire childhood to when I got away hearing about what a loser she was and they never let up!" There's a reason why she got sick so young just like me. Don't you get that one reason I walked away was I didn't want to be her, crushed by a pair of sociopaths?" He didn't argue with me on this stuff he saw the same thing.

He wants me to go to the memorial service, supposedly it will be in the spring. I went to see nephews and a few cousins and yes I know it could be a danger zone I have to seriously think about. I don't know....My life has very few trustworthy people in it.

I was very close to Aunt Scapegoat earlier in life. I have a lot of carried pain because of what happened to the relationship I remember. We were very close and could talk about many things and cooked meals together and told jokes. Back then we were a source of support to each other. In my 20s I spent entire weeks visiting with her, and remember talking with her. During those days she had a spark of energy and a spirit that took an interest in many things.  She loved music and I could share art with her. There was even one time she saw my comics and laughed and laughed. She cooked me tasty stir fry and introduced me to the music of the 1970s including Pink Floyd. I will never understand what happened to her. Even my brother admitted, she followed her own drummer. These were the years before they crushed her. He said today, "She was a black sheep too."

In later years as she started to close me out, I couldn't even figure out what happen it took me so by surprise.  She got sick and then got divorced. Her life imploded under severe disabilities, needing dialysis and other pressures. I tried to keep contact even via Chicago years and others and then the time came when she threw my painting in the closet.

They really did do what they could to destroy the relationship. My grandmother told me lies, before I could see out of the fog, "Aunt Scapegoat doesn't want to talk to you" In 1991 I remember driving home and crying wondering what had happened? I tried calling her when I was down there, and knocking on the door and she did not respond.

My mother said the same. I was told by my GC sister, "Aunt Scapegoat doesn't like you. I would see her at family gatherings and then she started to avoid me. One time I got a smile when we exchanged some Christmas gifts but that was a rare moment in time. The time she got mad at me for expressing beliefs in 2005, was a mistake on my part. She called me a "Christer" [angry that I had a Christian viewpoint of the topic--I never was a Republican] and was angry. I think the relationships was forever severed at that point despite my best efforts.

And then there was the last time I saw her sitting on the couch recovering from that surgery and she was so beaten down. Her head down and shamed by my mother as usual after she shouted at her for not being clean enough and when she went upstairs, I said to my mother "Why are you bothering a sick woman about being clean?" but I didn't do enough which shames to me this day. I saw no physical abuse or anything reportable, but I should have said and done more. Here is what I wrote on the Queen Spider article about what transpired that day:

"3. Said of her sister who by the way who is more physically functional then me except for her dialysis who she played martyr around and brought into her home to heal from her heart valve surgery--"She needs to stop getting these surgeries and needs to just go die". During this conversation she acted "put upon" for Aunt Scapegoat's care. I thought to myself, "Why not just leave her be? Why offer care only to play that game?" She complained to me about how much Aunt Scapegoat's colostomy bag smelled right in front of her. "She stinks!" Leave it to a super-sniffer sociopath to torture the world and a severely ill woman for every wayward smell.

I ask myself when my mother told me she wished my aunt would die, why didn't I say more, why didn't I confront? Why did I just say "Everyone wants to live" and something about "God wanting them to live?" I shouted at my brother, "That's the day I knew I was going to walk away it's time for you to get a clue and wake the hell up. It's the day I knew our mother was EVIL."

Why God Why? Doesn't even explain the emotions I am having.

****************************************************

Post Script 2/25/16: I talked to a cousin on Facebook PM last night, this is one of my nice cousins. He told me very recently that he had told my aunt, I thought she was mad at me. She told him she was not and had shared fond memories of me with her. She even showed him a painting that I did for her, I had forgotten about giving her. This was a different one from the flower one my mother told me was put into a closet into a box and was a landscape. I told him I was happy to hear this. One commenter below wrote "I'm sure they told your aunt that you didn't like her just like they told you that your aunt didn't like you." This was exactly what happened. My aunt was very poor and denied a phone, only given phone cards or disposable cell phones that only called out. There were years I was sending her cards and presents, where I didn't even know her phone number or was given phone numbers that just rang and rang or there was no way to respond or leave a message on. My mother held her guardianship and I think she was afraid to reach out to me and of course this was complicated by illness and her own withdrawal from people.

I was told by my mother "She doesn't want to talk to you" and by my sister "She doesn't like you, you bother her, she disagrees with you on things." and by both my grandmother and mother when I was sending her paintings and boxes of books, she loved to read, in the early to mid 2000s, "Don't send her anymore things, she does not want them." I was denied her phone number at various times and my grandmother told me at least twice, during the years I was trying to call about once every two months and there was a number, "Stop bothering your aunt."

The depth of evil of what I have faced here is very severe and has given me a new realization of what has been done to me and others. My cousin lost contact with her for years and only reclaimed it in the last two moving very close to her area. Even he would try to contact her to be turned away but because he lived so close was able to reclaim a relationship with her. It makes me glad there was someone around her who loved her around her during the last months of her life.  It does relieve me to find out how she really felt.

40 comments:

  1. When I learned of my mothers death I was told to get lost (metaphorically) and that's just what I did. I don't think it will be that easy for you. I wish it was, but you obviously had a better relationship with her than I did my mother. I would ask enough people to figure out if they are going to give you some answers and if they aren't I would consider it over. It's a shame a whole life can be so disposable and obliterated so easily but that what narcs make out of the deaths of others.

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    1. That obit made me sick, you are right whole lives are disposable and obliterated easy by then. People die and are "forgotten". Trust me it is a big deal she is being cremated. She is the first one ever, the rich relatives have done that to EVER. I will ask the cousins what happened, I have contact with but have to wait a few days, because I don't want to be the one to pass on the news first. With this one I have the more positive years and memories until they broke her down and basically ruined our relationship. It makes it all very painful.

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  2. I'm sorry your aunt died before you had a chance to reunite with her and get your relationship back. I have been hoping you will see justice but it does not look like it is happening now.

    I think it is awful that she is the first one in your family history to be cremated. Maybe they murdered her or want to cover up on the real cause of her death. You have an evil family. I don't believe in cremation either because you could not unearth people's body years later in order to determine if the person was murdered or not. Catholics don't believe in cremations so it is suspicious.

    Please be careful when you go to a memorial this spring and try to stay away from that evil woman. Hope you will be guarded by very good friends who will not listen to your so-called family's smear campaign against you.

    On a side note, I woke up from a nap an hour ago and remember a weird dream I had. In that dream, my old narc classmate smeared against me that I walked away. My old friend text me to ask me where was I. I texted her back telling her that I walked away and would talk to her later. My old friend knows about narcissism because she had a narc husband who divorced her 3 years ago. My narc classmate tried to find me but I was nowhere to be found. She holds a Phd degree from a diploma mill university called California School of Professional Psychology when she went under the surname of her first husband. They had been divorced for years so she goes by her maiden name in Facebook and LinkedIn. I also noticed that narcs hide their dissertation and graduate school information. By the way, it was a weird dream in light of reading about a women who just died recently after years of dealing with gaslighting and guardianship abuses. We will need to ask legislature for a bill to protect adults from guardianship abuse from abusive parents, spouses, siblings. Hope there will be laws like that in the near future.

    I will pray you will see some justices in your life sooner than later. Praying for you.

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    1. I wanted to go down there and attempt a reconcilation. I am 200 and something miles away. I was going to ask a friend to drive me down there soon, because our car is so old, and could not make the trip, but his girlfriend got very sick with a stroke. Of course just trying to survive day to day was occurring too. I was sorry about this delay. I did feel like I was so far from people and "cut off". I am relieved as I wrote in the postscript my cousin got to talk to her and was there.

      I had dreamed of attempting a reconcilation and re-uniting, you will see in the postscript I had tried many times from far away.

      I have been praying for justice too. There are a lot of things I don't understand.

      Yes the fact they are cremating her and are not giving her the usual plot in the family cemetary speaks volumes. My NM was in a different state as far as I know, down in Florida. I asked to be told what the cause of death was when the relatives I am in contact with find out.

      I plan to maintain NC at any memorial I go to. There are others I can talk to. I hope a good friend can be there to help too.

      Interesting dreams, I know we can dream about scenarios narcissists put us through. Sorry you had this friend treat you this way. Guardianship gives people a lot of power over others. I felt weird suspecting this, because my Aunt while she was on dialysis was in better functioning shape then me. She was even driving herself to dialysis as late as Jan of this year. She started having vision problems according to my cousin so could not anymore. It is strange how independent she was expected to maintain her life, while under a guardianship and with my mother holding power of attorney. It definitely was more about power and control. Yes there needs to be laws protecting disabled adults. Thanks for your prayers.


      I will pray you will see some justices in your life sooner than later. Praying for you.

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  3. Peep,

    I'm sorry to hear about the passing of Aunt Scapegoat. Please hear me when I say this....Do not feel guilty. Your mother and her enablers would have never allowed a relationship to develop between you and your aunt - never. I'm sure they told your aunt that you didn't like her just like they told you that your aunt didn't like you. This is what they do best. They divide and conquer good people. They like to isolate their victims of abuse from any support. They can't take a chance of you and your aunt becoming confidants, comparing notes on your mom/sister, exposing their lies and deceit.

    I was very close to one of my cousins, but as soon as my NMom found out, this cousin stopped all communication with me. This occurred so many times in my life, and hurt my heart badly. But I am starting a new life without my Nmother, golden child sister and their minions of followers. I could never thrive with them in my life. Note: I stay away from anyone who exhibits controlling behavior - big, narc red flag.

    I totally get the cursing too. I'm a Christian, and no longer speak that way, but there is a righteous anger in us that comes to the surface sometimes that can scare us.

    It's so frustrating when talking to clueless siblings when they don't believe us, or want to stay neutral. I've been there too. I would rather be us, with our eyes fully open, then back in that narc family cult.

    Please Peep - don't feel guilt. God knows your heart. We know your heart. You did not walk away from this aunt, she walked away. She was never free a day in her life. You are. I believe your Aunt knows the truth now about who and what your mother/grandmother is.

    Peep - Please keep strong. Don't look back. It will just suck your life-force. God bless you.

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    1. Thank you anon, I am glad you posted this to me. I have struggled with feelings of guilt. Why didn't I do more? You will see in the post script I wrote where I quoted one of your sentences, you are exactly right about what happened. I think my cousin had his eyes open to what exactly I have been dealing with. There was more then several narcissists and enablers seeking to destroy our relationship. We were very close in my 20s and when she was in her 30s [she is 14 years old] and all of these parties did everything possible to separate us including my grandmother.

      You are right this is what they do best. They do not want the good people together and comparing notes. They hate our love and kindness of one another. They do not want us talking. My aunt was extremely isolated and lived right next door to my grandmother. So much evil workings were done to keep us from comparing notes and confiding in each other. My aunt admitted something was seriously wrong with my mother when I was in my 20s and then that just stopped. They got control over her. Our separation worsened at the very exact time my mother gained guardianship over her.

      I am sorry your NM cut off contact with your good cousin. I understand the hurt. I have had this pain. I have been cut off even from the one niece who was writing me in the last few months. It has happened to me many times too. So sorry. I am glad you have started a new life. I know I am working on the same thing. I do have a life with my husband, he has been good and supportive through this.

      Yes stay away from controlling people. I am doing so too. I am avoiding people who are into "fixing me" and that is a form of control.

      Thanks for understanding the cursing. I think my anger was righteous. I was trying to break through to my brother. He admits I am right about my sister now, but there are some huge blind spots with my mother. He was flabbergasted about some of what I told him. I hope he wakes up. I tried. I will protect myself too.

      I've been there too. I would rather be us, with our eyes fully open, then back in that narc family cult. His wanting to stay neutral and denying what my mother had done brought it out. I defended Aunt Scapegoat and told him how they treated her for all her life was wicked and evil. He definitely has no doubt to where I stand now. I am glad my eyes are open too now.

      Thanks for telling me not to feel guilty, I have had immense struggles and have cried quite a bit. You are right she walked away. She may have been afraid etc, but it is true, I did try. My husband told me I tried for years. She never was free and I am. You are right. I believe God has shown her the truth now too. I prayed about this. Thanks so much for your kind encouraging comments.

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  4. I am very very sorry to hear about your Aunt's passing. I know what a terrible blow this must be for you. You will definitely be in my prayers.

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    1. Thank you anon, and yes it was a very hard blow. Thanks for your prayers.

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  5. The obituary was probably the maximum amount of free words that you can have without having to pay.

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    1. That's what I am thinking. Different fees for lines and space, pay by the word. Kept as short as possible. I can tell she wrote it, she was mentioned first.

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  6. My condolences, Peep. You don't have to make any decisions right now. Please give yourself a chance to absorb this news.
    TW

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    1. Thanks TW, yes I do not have to make any decisions right now. I am going to take things slow, and go rest the rest of the day after answering a few emails. Thank you always for your support.

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  7. I'm sorry for your aunt, Peep. It's good for you that by going No Contact you prevented ending your life the way she did.

    I am NC with everybody in my family of origin. No exceptions. It seems to me there is nobody in my FOO with whom I had as close a relationship in the past as you did with Aunt Scapegoat, so I'm not sure I can relate completely to your present situation. Still, I was fairly close with the eldest of my first cousins (children of my mother's brother). She is a decade younger than me. We didn't see each other as much while she was a kid, but for a few years after she turned 18, we did spend time together, hang out, talk about our lives, etc. For me it was a sort of a big brother - young adult sister kind of relationship.

    Sadly, things started to deteriorate between us after I went NC with my parents. While initially she was supportive and I felt better after talking to her about it, over time she seemed to see me more and more as a broken person in need of fixing. She started asking me questions as if to see all the ways in which I had been damaged. I remember eventually thinking to myself, "I am not a zoo specimen for her to study me!" About that time, two years after NCing my parents, I also cut contact with my sociopath brother. And since he was in frequent contact with aforementioned uncle, aunt and cousins, that was pretty much the end of it all. I didn't want to compete for them with my brother, I rather chose to leave them as well.

    My cousin was probably poisoned against me by my brother and my aunt/her mother, both sociopaths. A telltale sign I witnessed myself is that shortly before I went NC with him, my brother started trashing my cousin to me. It looks like they were trying to drive us apart. Sadly, they succeeded. Thinking back, I can see the signs of my cousin being or becoming her mother's golden child/mini-me. The last time I saw her was at my uncle's (her father's) funeral. She didn't say anything negative to me, but the look in her eyes was unmistakable: she was looking at me as if I were the scum of the earth. Who knows what lies they told her about me. In four years' time she had also gone from being of normal weight to incredibly obese, which makes me think she was possibly abused herself and/or had health issues.

    At that same funeral, my aunt mocked me not one hour after her husband had been buried. It was then and there I decided that I never again want to come within one mile of that woman. I wrote about it in more detail when I commented on your post "My Brother Is Very Sick". If I may express my opinion about it, if I were in your place I would not go to the memorial service for security reasons. I understand you want to honor your aunt, but I would recommend that staying away from sick and dangerous creatures take precedence. Besides, your absence would be a powerful statement about the living that will be there, mo matter how they may twist it (as no doubt they already do every day).

    Best,
    Nenad

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    1. Hi Nenad, I feared ending up like my aunt as I wrote in the original article about her. I still very sad like evil has won. :(

      I understand you being NC with your entire family. The narcs poison the well of so many relationships it's not funny. Look how even here, when I have fond memories of this aunt and we were truly friends when I was younger at what happened. I know now they did everything in their power to separate us. The same thing has been done like with my niece.

      I am sorry you lost your cousin to the machinations of narcs. :( Yes they will label the SGs as damaged goods and sadly people listen to all the talk and ignore what they see in front of their eyes. I even had a weird moment seeing a cousin post about Aunt Scapegoat on Facebook. He shared some fond memories but I noticed his repeating that she was a "rebel" and I saw for myself in front of me the labels the narcs had given her so a member of the younger generation--he is around 10 years younger then me, would have a certain view of her. I was glad he had some loving memories of her but this was so apparent.

      With supposedly broken people in need of fixing, I do believe that this is a set up the narcissists as a whole in society have bestowed on us, with some claiming perfection and to be the fixers.

      So I am sorry she started asking you questions. I understand the idea of not wanting to compete. One thing I am noticing is the family is more broken apart then I thought, I thought the ones living closer to each other kept more contact. Outside of the one cousin visiting with my aunt, it seems most of them neglected her even though she was in a short driving distance from them all and even next door to a few.

      So yes your cousin was probably poisoned against you. I have had this happen on multiple fronts. I know my Aunt Scapegoat had many who spoke badly of her and did the same thing. She was essentially abandoned and just noticed as it suited them for supply and appearances at annual family events.
      continuing...

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    2. Yes just like with your brother trashing your cousin, that is how it is done. A constant cycle of trash-athons, jsut like three narcs told me, "Your aunt wants nothing to do with you". What did they tell her? Probably the same. It gives me a stomach ache. I hate that I failed in putting a stop to any of it. I cried for hours thinking if only I had gotten the money or ability to travel down there to talk to her directly.

      Sorry your cousin changed, I have seen that happen before. Yes when they look down on you as the scum of the earth, that is horrible. All the competition, it's sick. The narcissism of America has destroyed family life or even the idea of kinfolk or loyalty.

      I suppose even GCs get some abuse. My anorexic sister is a health mess after all, even being the one on "top". Probably selling one's soul is not good for one's health either.

      Yes your aunt doing that, it is horrible, like she didnt have other things to worry about.

      I have considered the security realities. I sometimes think "Will there even be a memorial service?" Maybe it's just talk right now, given they seem to be cremating her and shoving her out of sight and memory as soon as possible.

      I don't have contact to know but I don't even think my mother bothered to come back from Florida when her own sister died.

      I will think about things in making the choice, thanks for caring to warn me. I know it is a very complicated choice. My brother said he really wanted to see me but I know I have to be careful even with him. I don't want to walk into a trap. There are some relatives I do have contact or VLC with I would see like my three cousins, and their families, my brother and his [two nephews] and one cousin of Uncle Lost boy. I was talking about taking another male friend besides my husband [his best friend] if I go to drive us down there. Our car is too old and he has road service and has taken us on other day trips together. We would be staying in our own hotel room not with anyone. Part of me wants someone there to stand up for her being me, and probably that other good cousin, and also understands the safety concerns.

      I would not break NC even to go down, ie would not say a word to several as you know. I have to ponder how realistic this is and what the set up of the memorial service will be like. Because of where everyone lives, taking the option of visiting the ones I would want to see alone is impossible, everyone lives that far spread out.

      I have some time to decide which helps. I will have to pray about it too. I also am suspicious because they never cared about "waiting until the weather is good" when it came to the annual family gatherings I always missed. I was usually housebound and they wouldn't change it.

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  8. I am sorry for your grief, Peep. Because you once had a relationship with her and lost it, it must be very painful for you.

    I never met most of my family until I was adult and could pay my own travel bills, and even then, there was no warmth and nothing came of my attempts to approach my aunts and cousins. I had more grief when my favorite writer died than my aunts. I have a passionate involvement with books and reading and my mother and sister have no comprehension of how supportive this is to me.

    People die in stages. The aunt you knew in your young days probably "died" long before her physical death. Personality is fragile. So maybe the aunt you wanted to reconcile with was long gone. This is hard fact of life and one this culture does not prepare us for. Maybe the reconciliation you wanted couldn't happen, so you didn't miss it.

    My dad stopped talking to me when I was about twelve. I had thought we had a close relationship until then. To me he died and I grieved for about three years and then realized he was gone. Like Rachael in Escape from Narcissism on youtube says, it is like a space alien has replaced one's dad. When the physical space alien pretend dad died, I was and am basically indifferent. I did my grieving in my early teens. I was devastated then.



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    1. Yes it is painful. I know I am thinking of a relationship that existed in the distant past too.

      Sorry you approached your family BEE and there was no warmth and got turned away, that is sad. Yes your favorite writer brought more grief. It sounds like you had no relationships with them but that was not your choice.

      Your post is excellent in pointing out to me that people die in stages. Yes, this happened here. She died long earlier. As I wrote they broke her spirit. I suppose I have been grieving long before this. You think of all the should have beens....They helped to destroy her and broke her spirit. I remember the person who still had a strong spirit and had dreams.
      Personality is fragile. From what my cousin said it sounds like he saw brief glimpses of the old her, but I had this thought he got to see her alone and that was rare, even he was turned away from her door multiple times but because he lived so close he was able to get her to communicate. I still have alarmed memories of seeing her look so broken that day my mother trashed her when she had already been sick for years. One cousin reminded of me something on Facebook where when the Aunt that Loved me had died, this aunt got sick within only one year of that. No one respected her grief. The cold ones probably didn't care. It's like she withdrew into herself. The fire and passion of life was gone. Yes personality is fragile. Without the love of husband, God and art, I would have been done for, and I feel sometimes the what some have referred to as the "eclipse of the soul" encroaching. I do feel I failed her which is a terrible feeling. If I had become more wealthy as an adult, I could have done more and stepped in more. Yes I have my regrets. I wish I could have rescued her. Does that make sense?

      I am sorry your father stopped talking to you. yes I had my years of grief even over this relationship and why wasn't she responding or calling me? I can't even imagine being treated that way by a parent, or maybe I can, mine were present but not really there, but yes that had to be horrible for you.

      I relate to the space alien analogy because I remember when my aunt started to change. I saw it at some of those family gatherings and I would try to get her alone separate from the narcissists and try and draw her out. I only managed a few glimpses. If I hate my mother for anything lay this one at her feet too. What these narcissists do to people is beyond the pale. Thanks Bee. So sorry for what you have gone through too.

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  9. I think if you would ask Reverend Renee about what to do I would bet she would tell you No Contact is a unilateral proposition. Death shouldn't be a factor in NO Contact. It's your guilt that is making you want to make a show down there. The people you worked to get shed of are the same people you will encounter at the memorial. Mourn her loss and commemorate her life on your own terms. It's sounds like she would understand you not mixing with the toxic sludge. She would rather you guard your heart rather than potentially be back in their clutches again. You know they'll say just enough to bring you back into the fold where they can take one last shot. Your aunt would have understood and if she can see into your heart from the other side she will know your true feelings about her.

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    1. This is amazing, Q. My sentiment exactly, articulated as I never could.

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    2. Reverend Renee yes probably would say, "Stay the hell away". Hey I am glad some of you are reminding me of the safety and other concerns. I even had thought maybe go see some of the cousins on my own, but the logistics make that impossible, all these different cities, brother lives 150 miles from the cousins. My brother poured it on too, saying its been too long since you've seen me or the kids and then told me he would have come seen me but it's hard to know what to trust and believe obviously. He has served as NM's messenger boy before.

      I guess I have some weird feelings I have not seen some relatives in 10 years, like the cousins well except the good one helping her with her cat. But what do I do about the narcs? I dont think GC sister narc would show up, and no worries about Aunt Confused and her wicked daughter, she is the other side of the family. The main narcs to avoid would be my NM, Uncle Narc and his wife Aunt Denial. Could I swoop in, and swoop out with the help of my husband, his best friend, our own car, and hotel room and keep the boundaries? Is this too unrealistic? I've frozen people out. I know that takes self discipline if they attempt to get in your face and trigger you.

      I find myself thinking at times there will no memorial service, why? Because the NM knows I am pissed at how they treated Aunt Scapegoat for years. I addressed their treatment of her in my NC letter and even wrote in there, they had ruined my relationship with her. Wouldn't this be risk of exposure to a narc? In other words, she is busy shoving the woman under the carpet, and is lying already.

      Q you are right there is definite guilt. I know I can't let myself back in the narc clutches again. What if it's a set up? They know this one makes me vulnerable just like bringing a loved niece to the door. Has anyone here ever gone to a funeral or other family even with some narcissists they are NC with? God may even vote against it based on the cash flow. Thanks for saying that she would know my true feelings.

      I feel dread on dealing with any narcs, obviously. The Queen Spider could cook up all sorts of stuff.

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    3. One thing telling me to go is because brother's health is so poor too. But dealing with dangerous narcs....AAAAUGH... :(

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    4. As I've told you, I've been to such a funeral. What I experienced includes:

      - Feeling disgusted, sick, afraid, at the mere presence or physical proximity of abusers, even without direct interaction. Anxiety before going, anxiety while there fearing when they would show up or come near.

      - Unexpected showing up: My mother was my primary abuser. She hated my uncle's guts, so I didn't expect her to come to his funeral and went there thinking I was safe at least from her. I was wrong. She was there, and I had to deal with her presence without having anticipated it.

      - Unavoidable contact: I only met my mother right before the ceremony proper, where according to our customs the casket is in the chapel and the closest relatives of the deceased stand around it, accepting condolences from people coming in. I went in, I didn't expect her, and then I saw her. I couldn't pull back. So on the spur of the moment I decided, "OK, what she gets is a formal expression of condolences, nothing more." Where I live that's a handshake and kissing both cheeks, while saying "My condolences" or something like that. I did that with everyone standing there, including her when it was her turn. She hugged me, had started (fake) crying and wouldn't let me go, so I whispered "That's enough" in her ear and pushed her away, then went on.

      - Attempts at manipulation / abuse: I already told what my psycho aunt did to me while there. With my mother, the moment we saw each other I saw the anger in her eyes. It was just for a split second, but enough for me to notice. And when I got in front of her to express my condolences, she was already shedding tears like a fountain. The difference between the two facial expressions was so striking and so sudden, I have no doubt the crying was fake. Add hugging me so that I had to push her away, and in a letter she sent me months later (unfortunately she knows my address, and it's not that easy for me to move), she tried to guilt trip me over it, saying, "You pushed your mother away." If she was so distressed as she appeared to be, how come she remembers it so vividly, and tries to blame me for it? I am certain she just grabbed at anything she saw to once more try to lure me back in.

      During the whole ceremony, except for the above, I never approached either my parents or my brother at less than a few yards and several people between us. I just couldn't bear to be near them. I never said one word to them. Instead of being right behind the casket in the procession, as they were, I fell back and didn't even pass the cemetery gate for the final part. I stayed outside. And I doubt that any of the primary mourners even noticed I was missing from there. Or if they did, I don't care.

      On a positive note, I did enjoy talking to some of the extended relatives who I hadn't seen or heard from in years. I think most of them don't even know I am NC, as I've always kept it quiet for the most part. With some of them, I had the feeling we could connect and have a relationship. But then came the downside, when I realized they will always be closer and more affiliated with the narcissists than with me. It couldn't work. I would formulate the golden rule of No Contact as, You cannot have a normal relationship with anyone who is in contact with the people you are NC with. As I was driving away at the end, alone in the car, I was crying because of how alone I felt, and how I couldn't connect with any of them.

      I live in Europe and American customs may be different - I don't know - but I'm guessing the basic principles are the same and that's not crucial.

      So if you ask me, I say stay away. It's just more harm than good. Well, the single most important "good" is making you never want to do anything similar again. I don't care who dies next in my family, I am simply not going and that's that.

      Now, the decision is yours, of course.

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    5. Thanks Nenad for sharing your experience. I know it will take some time in making a decision. I feel so far away and hate how my life ended up with distance becoming so problem. I wouldn't mind seeing a few of the relatives, wish I could see them one on one on our own time but everyone lives so far spread out that short of the financial thing being fixed, don't know how to remedy that.

      I already have anxiety about it. I do think that there is still a HIGH chance there will be no memorial service. I mean if the NM couldn't be bothered to return home for her sister's illness and death [as far as I know] from her second vacation home, having a memorial service for a sister she treated like crap all her life may be last on the menu. I am sure she would say, "But I helped her", yeah with pound of flesh money as she told everyone within ear shot she was a loser and a burden.

      I remember one conversation during the time her sociopath veil dropped, and she started yelling "Why won't she get a job, or something along those lines" and I said, "Yeah right someone with that much illness and dialysis three times a week is going to go get a corner executive office" But hey they deemed me a loser for being disabled, and made sure to tell everyone in ear shot. My out of control body was "supposedly" my fault.

      Sorry your mother faked hugged you. Mine won't touch me if there. I never had hugs even when it contact not even phony ones. I attempted a hug when in the muddle and fog of attempted false forgiveness but it was like hugging a skinny statue.

      Yes I understand the anxiety.

      Sorry your mother showed up even hating your uncle, and then false tears galore. I do wonder how I will react if I see false displays of tears. I told my brother that one reason I went NC, and I don't even care if she is reading this blog is because of what she said about her own sister to me [see the Queen Spider of Darkness article] I got tired of the gloating sickening airs of "superiority". If I don't go, I may write some of the decent ones letters why not, and they can choose to believe me or not. I told my own brother he needed to piss or get off the pot and stop allowing her money to blind him and turn him into a moral cripple.
      continuing...

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    6. Traveling is hard for me. There is part of me thinking now for all those family gatherings they didn't give two craps about it being the end of Dec where it was too cold for me to go anywhere house bound even in my small town, and I begged for years to be met half way--[have it in mid to late Nov] and was ignored. So why the caring about making it possible now?

      Yes you saw the anger in her eyes. Mine has faked tear it a few times. Usually at funerals we only see red eyes, and I remember her dry eyes while wailing over my father that disturbs me to this day. It would be horrible to have to witness this. I suppose yes this would be a problem.

      My family knows I am NC, but understand a family not knowing. I told them. I wouldn't mind seeing some of the distant relatives. I have realized the family has broken up even beyond me...[the nice cousin having to move back to the area who lost contact with Aunt Scapegoat for years, the cousin admitting on Facebook, even though he lives in the same area as Aunt S, that he hasn't talked to her in a year] I can tell they are breaking apart from one another and have.

      I have the problem too where I worry they will always be closer and more affiliated with the narcissists. My brother already has betrayed me. The cousins are in with Uncle Narcissists and see him often. I saw one cousin even repeating the false labels unheaped on Aunt Scapegoat. ["rebel"] [her problem in my book was that she didn't "rebel enough". My brother on the phone when I was cussing him out called her ["black sheep"].

      My main motives for going I know is worry my brother will die soon [bad heart problems and almost died twice] and I can't afford to get to his place--the memorial service will be at the half way mark between us both and speaking out for the aunt. A witness to her goodness so to speak. I know I have to ponder the decision carefully. Since my mother used my niece as a pawn and succeeded in destroying that relationship with more lies, I have to be cautious.

      I don't even know if I can logistically pull it off. The travel would be very hard, double the distance I am used to. I only have traveled 30-100 mile distances in the last 5 years and most of those trips were in a friend's car with him and husband.

      Thanks for the warnings though it does give me something to think about. I do have that undergirding too that the NM "won" because I had so little money to travel for too many years and never saw anyone outside of the one cousin who came to me. In fact there's been a lot of tears of frustration for me knowing that I was planning to try and see the aunt and no money to get there and with the health so bad. The NM because of her money and getting to see everyone all the time made my life more hell.

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  10. It is better to be cremated. The ashes can travel to such amazing places. Eugene Shoemaker's were sent to the moon with the Lunar Prospector space probe, in a little capsule inscribed with words from Romeo and Juliet:

    And, when he shall die,
    Take him and cut him out in little stars,
    And he will make the face of heaven so fine
    That all the world will be in love with night,
    And pay no worship to the garish sun.

    Clyde Tombaugh discovered Pluto in 1930. His ashes were packed onto the New Horizons NASA space probe and sent to explore Pluto.

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    1. Thanks Bee. I have friends who have been cremeated. I know more are having to do it financially even. This is first time for family in cremating someone. Thanks for that info, I never knew about those things with the discoverer of Pluto.

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  11. What is going to happen to the cats she loved so much?

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    1. The decent cousin who visited me last year and the one who told me of the last conversations with her is working now on finding a home for her cat. He has put up ads even on Facebook and networked in finding the cat a home. He is a true animal lover too.

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  12. I too am very sorry to hear of your aunt's passing. I also know how hard it is to deal with anger, especially when that anger arises from profound abuse. I will pray for you.

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    1. Thanks TH...thanks for understanding the anger too and for your prayers.

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  13. I know emotions can go crazy at this time, mine sure did when my mother died. And I can sure relate when you say that the door is closed forever.

    Having a family like this makes all relationships so complicated, and life in general gets complicated.

    What I do is that I just feel through all the emotions. Even the ones that don't make sense, especially the ones that don't make sense, see where they are. But its ok, you were once friends with your aunt, then she didn't treat your artwork so well, then she avoided you, but you knew she was so sick, other triangulated you, this is a lot to process. I would love to have normal relationships in the family too, but it doesn't seem to be that way for us.

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    1. Thanks Joan S. Yes my emotions are all over the place, sorry you went through it too with the recent death of your mother. Everything is far more complicated even like trying to walk through a thicket of lies, and complications. It's like good and bad mixed together. I mean even with the aunt, I think "Why not call me?" and "Why did you allow these narcs to get so much control?" I just don't understand many things. So thanks Joan. I wish I had normal relationships in the family too.

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  14. With deepest sympathy, dear Peep. There must be love and justice in the fullness of time.

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  15. It has occurred to me I would have been sending holiday cards to her even until holiday season 2012, with a full letter included, that I never got a response to. I would write her a whole letter asking her how she was, and knew I did in 2012. One reason I thought she hated me was the lack of response even to these cards and letters. Maybe her mail was being intercepted somehow. I thought she got her mail right to her house but it would have been rural delivery. In fact I remember writing her letters in holiday cards in the early 2010s.....:(

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    1. I also realize I am in a more pecarious position, since she has died. She was used as the "victim" and "scapegoat" they all fed off of. Yes I am doing some serious thinking here....:/

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    2. Being one the fewer remaining targets is definitely a risk.

      I also suppose it is possible your aunt's mail was intercepted. If I remember correctly she lived in a trailer right next to your mother, right? She also had guardianship of her (I don't know how that applies to mail delivery). At any rate, you can expect anything from narcs. At the very least, they probably psychologically manipulated the both of you to ruin your relationship.

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    3. Yes it is, with her gone, the bullseye on my back could get bigger.

      I wonder about the mail too. She lived next door to my grandmother but she died in late 2007 but then Uncle Lost Boy and his three grown kids and wife, all lived next door in the same house as of 2008/9 right next to her. I don't know how her mail was being dealt with. The ever changing phone numbers and phone funny business definitely made calling pretty complicated. I agree you can expect anything from narcs. I hate that I fell for some of the pyschological manipulation. I may have to realize with the family in general, I am just going to lose. It's such a mess.

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