Friday, August 19, 2016

Verbal Combat Skills and the Dangers of Grey Rocking

[warning some of these videos I worry are more on the lines of helping one become a better narcissist, Don Draper isn't exactly a nice guy. There's also faith based sensibilities to to think of but I am worried about my lack of verbal combat skills. Well keep reading]

The doctor gave me that same "condemned feeling" inside that my family gave me. When he told me, my sore was a PIMPLE, that hurt my feelings. My husband has told me he will talk to the nurse and help me confront this doctor too. I told my husband, I wonder how bad the abuse would be if I was single. I hate when I think of "comebacks" way too long after the fact. Like, "Yeah like I want to play phone tag with you idiots over a pimple" or "Sure taking antibiotics is fun and so is laying in bed for hours feeling too tired to move, I love having this "pimple"!

When I sat back, I thought, "Damn, I told those people at the home visit doctors office, I didn't know what the stupid sore was". I knew it was an infection because I felt like puking and had extreme fatigue. I described it in detail. It's just like narcissists to withhold and never share information. It's healing but the stupid thing still looks scary and is so big.

Let's all be done taking people's crap. I need to work on my verbal skills under pressure. I'm one of those people who is too quiet and then when I get pushed past a certain point, I start yelling. Because my temper got so bad, especially after my days in Chicago where I got "hard" and ready to verbally fight someone on a dime, I tried to mellow myself out, maybe I've gone too far.

Maybe I should have my husband do role-playing with me so he can pretend call me up act like one of these people and then I can learn to tell people off quicker. My stair-case silence is still getting me into massive trouble. Where is that coming from? That propensity to mutism? Am I chicken? I don't think that it is. It's like my mind freezes up. It's hard to explain. 

I cried and asked my husband, "Why did I go silent?"The narcissists catch me by surprise and I freeze up. I am too slow to defend myself. I need to seriously learn some verbal combat skills or I am going to spend my life being screwed over.  Even with the possible fake Aspie, I wish I had just said right to her face, "Why aren't you talking to me, and What is your damn problem?"  With one ex-narc friend she insulted me in my living room and I went quiet and only gave meek defenses and then later said Adios. I better well quit being such a verbal coward. There's times I have spoken up to people don't get me wrong especially if another underdog is being kicked around. It is bugging me however to go silent so much.

Let me warn of something here: Greyrocking isn't always a great idea. I did it for too long while I was low contact. It taught me to suppress emotions in front of people too much! Because my mother fed off any negative emotions, I learned to suppress them, to appear like a robot. Even today I am afraid to loosen up in front of many people. It is an incredible social problem. I am afraid of sharing real emotions, opinions and more. Any information is seen to be used as a possible getting screwed. People are easily offended today. Maybe it's easier to be hated. I never outgrew sinking into the wall paper to a certain extent. My mother had a way of turning any  emotions against me. So be careful of grey rocking. It stinks. It is better to AVOID the evil, as the bible tells us to do.

Have any ACONs here done well in learning verbal combat skills? What did you learn? The only concrete skill I have learned is when someone insults me is to agree with them and turn it back on them. One thing about me I can out-argue even lawyers, if something specific comes up, so I am not talking about that, but more personal events.

One thing with this doctor even I noticed when I was "bitchier" he treated me better. Once he was going on about the pharmacies, and I told him "Look I didn't invent the damn computer program switch it to paper scripts or leave me alone" and he backed down. But I get tired of the constant combat narcissists seem to lust for. I am not always alert and aware every second for their bullcrap.

I agree AVOID is the first point of action, but I have to learn to not be weak when it comes to unavoidable verbal confrontations. I need verbal combat training.

Verbal Self Defense


  1. The only way to win is not to play the game.

    1. This is true. What do I do with people I am forced to deal with. I may have to go no contact with my doctor too. :/ I did feel like a doormat big time.

  2. I can totally relate! I had lyme disease, and to get an IV you have to get approval from an infectious disease doctor. So I did. But my regular physician was dragging his feet with my insurance and tying things up ,while I was rapidly going downhill and in total agony. So my therapist tells me to be diplomatic with him. Well, I did the exact opposite. When I next walked in his office and he asked me how I was, I gave him a very serious look, and said in a mean voice "How do you think I am". I'd had it. I couldn't sleep for pain and could hardly get out of bed. Well, he got off his ass and I got that IV.
    Sometimes you just have to be tough. There is no other way people will treat you well. He isn't even a bad guy,he's just too laid back or lazy or something.
    But I have fallen back into letting him run over me with the "I don't know" crap.I get home and I feel like, why didn't I demand better care.
    I swear you can have a positive lyme test and they will tell you you don't have lyme if you don't get over it in a week. It's a crummy situation to have strange diseases. I know people will cringe; but it seems better if you get some cancer that's popular. Then you get straight forward treatment and not the runaround for 10 years until your just about to die.
    I might try learning some of those skills,but I would be a little afraid of becoming a narc to or something..I guess it would depend on the approach. You definitely have to keep on top of the way you let physicians treat you though.


    1. Yeah sorry you dealt with this too, I hate the approval rules and rest where we are always in "need" before these guys....I hate begging and asking people for anything. LOL it makes us BEHOLDEN. When I tell people I want full drug legalization across the board, I think people should be allowed to go the pharmacy and buy what they want, no prescriptions. I guess some people may think that is insane, but I have faced too much medical traumas I guess.

      I agree about being tough. I'm arguing with this guy a lot as it is. We got into an argument about the pharmacy the last few times. I even demanded paper-write all my prescriptions but he said he couldn't.

      I do feel like everytime I relax though they come from outer space with something new. Everythings a competition and squishing someone down. When I'm sick I don't want to deal with it. I have to be careful of something when I am sick, I am more afraid of people, this is the reason I stayed home from the hospital with dozens of kidney stones. They told me years ago they suspect I had a silent heart attack, and well, I remember that possible day, I was in pain in my arm that would not go away and did not want to move so I laid there. I guess I am afraid of vulnerability and people's drama and being hurt when sick but that can be a bad trend too.

      If I can deal with it ALONE I will. I wonder if this jerk even would suspect I waited 4-5 days hoping the boil would 'go away" before I started getting sick inside.

      Yeah you had the thing too where you thought, why didn't I demand better. This guy made me feel the same way too. He overwhelms me with details too, and doesn't listen, so my conversations with him are all a muddle.

      Lyme sounds like a nightmare. Anything they can pass off as "stress" or a "woman with nerves" they will even if you are puking your guts out at home daily.

      I know I watched the video and thought, "Yeah I could become the biggest bitch in the universe too" and become just like the narcs. I am already worried I am having trouble with too many people. I am sure many of us worry about fleas.

      I have problems with doctors. I am actually scared to death of them. I don't trust any of them father then I can throw them. LOL I have a doctor phobia up the whazoo. I have gotten along with many of them who have been respectful....but this one, he doesn't respect me and I know for sure does not like me. If he's drilling a hole in my medical boat, I'll be screwed.

  3. Some narcs place themselves in a situation where they could get continual narc supplies and make sure that people they want to bully could not go NC or greyrock. I was in that situation with a thesis director and was angry. I complained to my academic and thesis advisers when a narc thesis director tried to put a string on me.

    Some people could not go NC with their narcs for several reasons: children, financial situations, and health needs. People who are stuck with their narcs need to fight back so they could get out of abusive situations. Fighting back and going NC does not make you a narc. Narcs will claim that you are being a narc for fighting back or going NC. It's their way of projecting you and getting you back in the line.

    If you have an abusive doctor, you could always file a malpractice complaint, and tell them that you don't want to deal with abuses and denial of medical care you need in order to maintain your health. You could complain that the doctor wants to deny you of antibiotic, medicine, or some items you need, or that he emotionally and verbally abused you. Having a witness statement from others could help you with your complaint.

    I'm not sure if "verbal combat skills" is the right word. If it sounds narcish to you, it is probably is. We have to fight back. Sometime when we tell people off, they don't respond favorably. They could walk away and cut you off. However, they would not let you off free since some narcs will start their smear campaign against you. It was the main reasons why I did not do "verbal combat" with my thesis director. It would not work with him because of the way academic world works.

    On the other hand, if your doctor respond favorably in the first time, he might respond favorably the second or third time. However, if you continue to confront him, he will turn on you and call you a difficult patient.

    I hope you will find a way out so you could get out of the abusive situation and get medical care you need.

    1. Yes some people get stuck with narcs. I have to play my cards right so I can transfer to another doctor. I need my husband to be a witness or maybe I will need to have him sit on every appointment. I do this now to protect myself around doctors.

      I believe there is class prejudice going on [our nine years of poverty have made for very old and broken down things and grottiness in the apt] and even weight prejudice. I think he is republican who sneers at seeing my husband asleep in the morning not knowing he transcribed at night. I feel uncomfortable around him and he would criticize me too much. I think I put up with too much but was overwhelmed just trying to survive, get right meds. There was one time they told me they had no other doctors available and I kind of got "stuck with him". My good nurse practioner they changed her coverage area. This was quite a blow.

      Yes narcs will call us narcs for fighting back. I and my husband feel battered down. I feel afraid of people lately because there has been so much abuse here. My self confidence is shot. I have dreams about my old town where even though I am disabled, I was seen as a human being.

      I would file a complaint, if I am ever denied care. I wonder what part of making me waiting three days, to hear back does he not get when it comes to infections?

      So many of them don't realize with lymph legs you can go into a death sepsis infection very fast. It may be one reason I am deaf too. They do not understand the trauma. I lost my hearing during one severe infection. I hit 105.5 fever once. His lack of empathy bothers me greatly.

      I know there is risk in telling him off. There's a certain point where I cut my losses and know a relationship is going to be severed anyhow. He certainly never worried about his words or language to me. I know some situations verbal combat can make things worse. Sometimes I let my husband talk to these people.

      I should have known things were going to go bad when I told him about having Aspergers and he said "That's just a label". He brushes every damn thing off.

  4. I hate feeling beholden too. It does feel like you have to go ask mommy or something.
    I feel much more vulnerable because I am sick. In every situation it makes it harder to deal with stress and other peoples crap.
    I have a problem with doctors too. I loathe them at this point. They wrecked my life with really late diagnosis, and they made lots of money doing it. That goes for dentists too.
    I am sorry your having so much trouble with this one. Is there any way to find a less toxic one. Even slightly. He sounds like a jerk.
    I noticed my husband always gets good medical care, and he gets upset if he gets a hangnail. I really think it is a female thing. Doctors seem to often think woman are just whiny or something, which makes us more whiny because we're not. I'm not saying this from a feminist perspective, but from so many stories from so many women.
    As for lyme it's across the board. There is so many muddled opinions about it that when you just say the word, you can see the doctors head start spinning like it's ready to fall off and spin across the room. Even men with lyme often get this. It's like it's a trigger word and they need to go to a safe space when they hear it.
    I have so many things I am dealing with alone because I don't want to go give my co-pay to my doctor. My knee is getting worse all the time. My shoulders are shot and I'm having to lug jugs because were trying to prevent our well from drying in this drought. It's making it all worse.
    Sorry about your kidney stone. Ouch!And your sore!I hope it really is healing. It makes me pissed with your health problems you are being treated this way.

    1. I am so pissed I've had steam coming out of my ears for three days. I feel like I have to beg to narc mommy who says nothing is wrong with you stop your whining. When he say pimple, I had a triggering shut down. I used to have asthma attacks that were ignored where I thought I was going to die.

      I wrote I hate doctors on my facebook and had to apologize because one online friend is a doctor, but she is one of the few nice ones--medical friend, long distance, I never met before. Doctors destroyed my life with misdiagnosis too. 17 years and now they are ignoring the reality of lymph filled legs and they could kill me with their BS, and I am so angry, I am livid.

      That nurse is going to get an earful too if she comes back. Going to the ER even for a sore could cost me a few hundred dollars, but these rich people don't realize the parameters I am within.

      I think it is a woman thing too. They see us as underlings.

      Yes Lyme they don't want to deal with it. Anything autoimmune [I know Lyme is more complicated then that and triggers off autoimmune stuff] they all go into their safe space closet and don't want to hear it.

      I put off dealing with this for DAYS, until I couldn't deal with it. I hate talking to them on the phone. I hate begging them. I hate being put in this place. I am scared sometimes when the weather is so bad, I know Ill choke to go outside....and have to make those decisions.

      Sorry you are dealing with a drought and your knee and shoulders hurt. I tell this doctor I am fatigued and he has no mercy, he acts like I am lazy or something. I think there is a giant dose of classism here going on too.

      Yes the sore is healing so far. It's still there but no more scary colors just dark pink now. But it was never a pimple. I am scared of I am going to have sores break out from internal problems now. Hope you feel better soon too.

      There is a lot of time this guy has been rude to me, and I just bit my tongue, a few times I fought back but then it didn't matter, he did it again. He is TOO OLD and should be retired but don't take it out on me.

  5. Ugh, this has been the biggest trial of my life. Pushy sales people, and telemarketers, and I just can't tell them no. I keep telling them to call back later, and they call back later, and I keep telling them to call back later, and this can go on for months.

    I know doctors can minimize boils, they did it to me. For me they grow to the size of golf balls, and there is the doctor explaining that it is full of bugs, and I'm left freaking out for my mind is thinking of a horror movie where I'm literally being eaten alive by bugs. So what he means by bugs, is the microbiotic world, but it feels so scary. One time I couldn't even leave the room, I just sat there crying, I was only about 22 and the way he was talking to me was not something I could deal with. On top of that was the pain, so the crying was severe. They eventually called in another doctor who was not so scared of bugs, and lanced the darn thing.

    I don't know if verbal hardballing will get you anywhere in these situations. For me, it was the vulnerability I showed, that allowed the real people to come in and solve the problem. Yes, I do believe in vulnerability, cause to me, it always takes me to the real people, and narcs well, hopefully in most cases they just flee. Those freaks can't deal with emotions anyway.

    Nowadays, its hard for me to channel my vulnerability. I tend to cover it up. And I do that so lousy that it brings in the narcs for the attack. So I try to get back to my real self, the vulnerability, and knowing what we know, what narcs are, we will know when they are on the attack. I mean, even in the past my vulnerability was the winner, although I didn't know it at the time.

    The comment of this just being a pimple was more than wrong. It was an attempt to minimize your feelings, so I think I would have responded to that directly. So through the physical pain, and the horrible way you were treated by them, I would just respond in the way all that made me feel.


    1. He invalidates everything I said. Once I said I am so tired, to him during an appointment and he said nothing is wrong with you and I had a leg infection within two days.

      Sorry you have that happen with telemarketers. I got rude with mine, I used to do the same thing with you. I just say now "I have no money" or start talking in Spanish. "No Habla Ingles"

      Bugs are dangerous to people so weird he minimized that. I have had tons of boils before too even got that one boil drawing cream without any help from doctors before but never saw one like this one.

      Yes it was invalidation 101, it was wrong too. It's not like I wanted to play phone tag with them. I get scared of calling the office you know, so you know I am putting it off as long as possible. :(

  6. Dear Peeps, a quick comeback whenever one of these slimeballs hiss, guess that's a "gift" the Lord chooses to withhold from His redeemed. Narcs sound a lot like the mockers and scoffers back in Paul's day. From what I gather these narcs were very near, if not over, the line into reprobation. EW! Sounds like malignant people are not going to enjoy their future. There little quippy phrases??? Oh, they can have em! Yeah, I feel pity for narcs - at a distance. My problem is: I have no desire to pray for them. My prayer time, however inadequate, is focused on the victims.

    1. I stink at comebacks so maybe God is holding them back. Anyhow I just don't think on my feet that fast. Funny I think I could have been a good lawyer. I can argue but for the stuff that comes out of from the blue. WHAM, I'm left silent.

      I was thinking more about this stuff anyhow. Even if I mouthed off the best most devestating insult, it would mean nothing. If people are treating you already with disrespect, it doesn't change the core problem.

      Agree about the mockers and scoffers. Yes lets dedicate the prayer time to the victims.

  7. I think that part of the problem is the doctors that lower income people have to go to. My clients are all low income and the care they get isn't very good. One of them has a nasty infection in his toe right now and they just gave him some kind of cream to put on it...and he's diabetic and could end up losing his toe! I just don't know about some of these doctors!
    I'm really glad that your boil is healing now. We learned in our training to always take those seriously if we see one on our clients.

    1. This is lower income doctors. It's not the free clinic, but without the house call ones, I'd be forced to go to the free clinic, and while they are okay there, they just fix symptoms and emergencies. You are right there is different levels of quality. I have a good kidney specialist so a few good specialists creep in that the rich people around here see too. That's one reason I stayed here.

      I diagnosed my own kidney stones before getting the kidney doctor, and asked for tests. I even figured out on my own I had to go see an MLD for lymphedema. This one stumps me. The propensity for infections is worrying me. I have kept the diabetes under control. Today's sugar was 111. I think something systemic is going on, and need to see if they are tracking my parathyroids. I need to go read my own labs, my password stopped working and figure out more of what is going on. I am glad you take boils seriously in your patients. The fatigue needs treated. I am exercising as much as I can.

    2. I probably could pass nursing boards without the practicals included and have the book "Signs and Symptoms" and other medical books for diagnosis. I know doctors hate people who diagnose themselves but it is one reason I am still alive.

  8. Hey, don't feel bad, Peeps, I get in similar situations -- only I'm too tired to think of something clever to say in response. I think you have to go case-by-case on these things, your doctor's situation aside -- some of those battles are worth fighting more than others. There's a line from "Goodfellas" that comes to mind, when the guy's deciding whether or not to accept witness protection, and the Robert DeNiro character shows up to test his loyalty: "Your murderers always come with smiles, and they always come when they need your help." Or something along those lines. --Mr. Peep