Friday, August 15, 2014

Be careful of the "NICE" ones!

This article is regarding my aunt who is my father's sister. This is the aunt whose granddaughter [my cousin] married a multi-millionaire and where I was not invited to the wedding, My mother was. This is one of the many events I discussed as leading up to my going "no contact". This aunt lives around around 1000 miles from me.

 Soon I will write about her very interesting life story which even blows Aunt Scapegoat's story out of the water. Parts of this story include what happened to me too. Her personality and history definitely displays extreme signs of abuse and other hard to define personality disorders. I'll go in more detail later. Let's just say the narcissistic plague of insanity hasn't just cut one swathe across one branch of the family but both.

 She has been far more stable in her old age, but let's just say I do not consider her totally trustworthy and I knew with her, I could be going no contact with in the near future. What happened lately is enough to be a warning to me.

She does have contact with my mother, and well I am realizing this is a danger. I don't think I will ever be able to trust or form a decent family relationship with any relative that is in contact with my mother. Around any relatives,  I feel on guard, and betrayed inside as was written about next week.

They seem to have enough attachment to say hello on FB and with my brother an occasional phone call, but I can tell I am being held at arm's length to keep my mother happy, and I am not happy about this. It hurts and has hurt for years and right now self protection is my first order of business. In return, I have limited my emotional investment with these relationships.

So keep in mind even with my father's sister, I am tentative. My contact with her is only about 5-7 times a year. She did tell me some family history and helped spark my memory on many issues. I talked to her this year an average of once every 6-8 weeks. Her third husband is deceased and she moved up from Florida to live with her daughter who has a good manufacturing job.

Due to the adoption pursuit and wanting to find out what my grandmother on the paternal side looked like in her older age I asked her if she could send me some pictures. The reason for this request is to find out how young am I in the pictures? Are there pictures of me before that 9 month mark? Are there pictures to describe my baby book devoid of pictures unlike my brother's and sisters? I remember crying as a kid because my book had less pictures. Imagine that!

Another reason for the request is I want to see what my paternal grandmother looked like. I have only one picture of her from the 1940s where she is still relatively young. Could she have had lipedema? Years ago I used to be told she was large but then this aunt told me "Oh she didn't leave the 200s weight wise and had normal-thin legs".

I did not just call up and start asking, I sent her pictures of me, cards and had other discussions with her for over 18 months. I always had kept consistent contact. She told me "Sure, I'll send you some." It seemed like it wasn't going to be a big deal. I haven't seen any pictures yet and I've brought it up a few times. I thought her contact with my mother was minimal but it doesn't seem to be as yesterday I decide to call up and ask how is the picture sending going, and she tells me "Oh I talked to your mother, I told her you were asking me for some pictures, and she told me not to send you any!"

She then proceeded to tell me, "I'll still send them and I was looking to add one from ****'s album." [her daughter's]

I will believe it when I see it.

I plan to ask one more time with husband's help but then I will have no choice but to drop it. You can't make other people do what they do not want to do.  Another betrayal. More liars. More doors shut in my face. When I tell you this aunt's story it will blow your mind, but I knew I was taking a long shot.

My wicked mother has interfered with every relationship in the family. This net extends out to all of my father's relatives, including cousins [some of whom I sought to have contact with and was refused], divorced spouses from even ten years ago and every third cousin, great aunt and any other category that possibly shares DNA. I think she still even has contact with my uncle's girlfriend he split up with when he was 26 years of age, before he married another woman. I do not know how a person has the time to stay in contact with this many people or direct them but she definitely found it.

My mother's messages to all my family members regarding me has been...

1. "Ignore her".

2. "You don't need to visit her". "You don't need to invite her."

3. "You don't need to fulfill her requests."

4. "I have pictures, lots of them", you don't need to send them" [this aunt knows I am no contact with my mother]

5. "Don't listen to her, she is a liar."

6. "Don't listen to her, she is crazy."

7.  "She is fat and it's her fault!"

and over and over.

And as I have seen it is still going on.

Kind of puts those phony "We miss you cards" in context doesn't it?

Deep, deep wedges driven in deep.

No chance of being heard, always dismissed, always ignored and always disdained.

Now I knew betrayal was possible and unless my mother knew something, I kept my mouth shut about it even to this aunt. Talk about having to screen every thought to the finest tooth.

 My mother already knows I am on an adoption search in my last NC letter and questioning about my origins. If I am a biological child, she could have simply sent me a young baby picture earlier then the 9 month old one I have seen and gotten me to shut up. Life is weird when you have to find out a great-aunt died on the internet, but that is how life is with a clammed up secretive narcissist.

 I reminded this aunt, that I had told her not to tell my mother I was even in contact with her. She didn't seem to care about this request but made some vague excuse. She has a wicked wavering two sided mind, saying one thing one minute telling me "Yes your mother treated you badly!" and then stating "Your mother loves you!" while I am ignored and otherwise abused.

The control freak narcissist interferes every minute. 

I don't think I will see the pictures. If I do I will be happy and relieved.

I scoured the internet to see if there was a picture of my grandmother who died in 1969 in their local paper. I found her name in articles several times, and a picture of her gravestone but no picture of her. 

At least I was prepared to be disappointed but the sheer scope of my mother's power and control over all my relatives even ones that live thousands of mile away are extreme. I also have realized that I am invisible to them all. They only see me as she does, no matter how nice I am or how I tried to reach out in the past.

If the pictures are not sent, add another NC to the list of over 14 people. If she can't even give me this one small request of pictures of myself when young or a picture of my grandmother, I will be done with her. I will ask politely one more time and if I am told "No", I will tell her I am moving on.

I have realized there is no love, or even attachment with these folks. There is nothing. It is scary. I know as a person I sought to look for it. With this aunt years ago I drew closer to her, or tried, but my mother even there held the power. I will write more later on this issue and tell you her story too.

One question I have for ACONs who read my blog, Have you ever seen this much control over this many family members by a narcissist? I also am realizing that none of them see me outside of her definitions, no matter what I do.

Another question I have is, have any of you hit a wall, where you thought, if I have a relationship with a relative, they need to stand up for me or not have contact with the narcissist?

All my relatives, every one is in contact with my mother. 

I may be no contact with the whole crew the way this is going and not just 85% of them. No pictures sent tells me I am wasting my time with this woman and she has none of my best interests at heart and doesn't want to tell me the truth. I will see if I am pleasantly surprised but for now, my expectations are incredibly limited. 


  1. I am in contact with other family members who have contact with MNM and they are aware the no contact order. It has been difficult, but the other family members are saying there is two sides to every story. I still get the flying monkeys, with the hopes of a reunion and they have told me point blank to swallow my pride, and go crawling back to her and my sisters. I tell them that I am finally living with dignity, no longer relegated as the trouble maker etc, etc. My children and I are free, I have no obligation to her and her daughters, and husband number three and that "new" family she has latched herself on to. I have been lucky, and the flying monkeys are getting less as the years go by, I feel for you, she will never let you go in peace and will send daggers any which way she can take care....;

    1. I get the same. Even the ones that are "nice" to me like my brother, this aunt and cousins, seem to keep an arm's length away, and well while they may admit a few things about my mother, they still see her as superior to me, and me as "faulty", and I am tired of it. I am sorry you have gotten the same. Mine is latched on to her husband's family spending far more time with them too. I am glad the flying monkeys are getting less for you too. I get the feeling I'm not allowed to go in peace too. She couldn't even fake an apology like some NMs, not that I'd be fooled but it is something I have thought about.

  2. By the time of my mothers death there was basically no one left but my sister and her kid, my wife and her daughters. It's like trying to figure out how the people in Pompeii died. I mean it was definitely from a volcanic eruption, but was it from toxic gases spewing or hot lava? It's anybodies guess. You just know they are gone and those mummies are all that is left

    1. I worry I am not going to have anyone left. I have friends, but the majority of them are long distance except 2 and church and group acquaintances. I have a husband too and No IN laws and no children of mine own too as I have attested to. It is quite a thing to look at your life as a bombed out crater knowing a narcissistic did it with their bombs or hot gas. I am glad you had your sister. There is no one from the family to back me up. It troubles me. My brother admitted a few things but is under her ownership. LOL about the mummies. I feel like many of them are dead inside just by the way they act. It is a hard thing in life, to worry about being alone, as opposed to not being abused even the ones I have contact with it is minimal. Some cousins I doubt I will ever see again in 10-15 years. I haven't seen this aunt since 1997, yes I invited her to visit. The NM has seen everyone within the last 2 years and 1 year or less for most, so you gotta to know how that makes me feel.

  3. Sometime I am in shock looking at what happened. One thing I tried to change it for years. Going NC for me was giving up on the whole mess, knowing she had convinced them all, I was nobody that really counted. It's not true she is a liar. I also have figured out to what extent she has destroyed relationships even in collusion with others, hiding cousin's addresses, lying about where they live, and other extreme strangeness. I admit to myself now they kept the family reunion in December even though it had been 8 years since I had seen anyone on purpose to keep me away.

  4. I am still amassing clues about how my mother is/was. Not from family history. There is none left. I am so naive that I find the evil in such deliberate acts so hard to grasp that I tend to minimize them so they will fit in my "attic". I was watching a program called "Mystery Diners" where they go to failing restaurants and set up cameras and microphones and monitor what goes on while the owner is away. There was a waitress who had a grudge against these bartenders for performing a juggling act with their liquor bottles because her customers would leave the table and go sit at the bar to watch. It didn't matter to her that the people at her table left her a generous tip as they left She still felt entitled to theirs. So when one of the people they served drinks to got a tip she would wait until everyone was distracted by their "act" and steal the tips they left behind. She would tell each bartender that the other one was responsible. They almost came to blows over it. If that wasn't enough she would steal bottles of liquor out of inventory and pour them out and break them in the trash and tell the owner that the bartenders broke them juggling and almost got them fired. This is the thinking my mother must have used all her life.

  5. We haven't really kept in touch throughout my whole adult life. There were times we would get together, then we would again disappear from one another's life for years. There was so much triangulation that I don't even feel comfortable around them. I think we needed to be away from each other.

    Do I tell extending family members to stay away from mother if I am to be in their life? No. It would be a waste of air. I don't want to cause any more rift, as what it is. Someday maybe when she dies, we can talk and be more in contact, however, the training they have received will continue to play out I think.

    One of the first memories I have is us kids wanting another plate of sandwiches, and my sister saying we can't ask mom she is not talking to us right now. My brother said really? She said Yes. Not only weren't we not going to get more food, the games had already started. I think us kids were close back then. Then one of us got another sandwich and not the others. Ok, now the fighting. So you can see where this is going.

    Extending relatives? There is no relationship there. I'm not sure why. We just no longer keep in touch. For me it is best, what can they say? Get along with your mother? No. I choose this way cause I'm still dealing with the PTSD and other predators stalking me. I have enough to deal with.

    1. I agree with you needing to be away. They do destroy relationships with the triagulation. I am the type to think oh if you tell people the truth, they will listen but people sometimes choose their ignorance, it's easier then to challenge the status quo and sadly the narcs use this one to the hilt. I can tell I am losing to the "training" and to be honest I don't want to expend any more energy. I've said my piece warned who I could and now, I just don't feel like handholding or babysitting a bunch of betrayers anymore. I never told any to dump my mother just a thought, don't want to cross the boundaries. I figure some even know what she is, but out of fear and cowardice remain in place. I don't want to be the one to tell anyone what to do. I think too maybe I could be closer too after she is gone but I know my efforts are going to be limited from this time forward even for the ones I am in contact with. I just can't listen to the ones who defend her anymore. With my brother, I can successfully stay off the subject to a point. I know if dealing with certain people triggers me and creates emotional havoc, it is better to stay away. I will see if I get the pictures and will have to prepare myself for not getting them. I was a bit angry writing this post but told myself what did you expect? All of these people have always disappointed. I relate to what you said about the sandwiches. So many games that never let up. The narc sharks were always swimming. I even find myself asking how do they even have the time to destroy so many relationships?

    2. I keep thinking it will all be better when she dies. Maybe then we can all get together and all will be better. I may be crude but I wish she would kick the bucket now. That way I can call my sister, my brother, my extending relatives. Ok, maybe they may be upset with me, but I'm ok with that. I won't have to explain myself, I'll just say, "I had to stay alive, and she was emotionally killing me." No one in my family could deny that, she is doing it to them too, they just feel obligated.

      I am hoping you will get the pictures, I will pray that you do. Of course something like that they always make a big deal about, but such is the case in a narc led family. They only do what the narc wants. They can't stand up to her, they want to live in peace with her. Trouble is there is no peace. I really don't know why they won't stand up to a narc. Even your father's family, my God I really don't understand that. You are their blood relative, not her. It makes me sick that a narc has this much control.

      My husband has a narc buddy ( I know I'm new to this but I've been suspecting him before my awakening, so now I'm sure I know, I've been reading and learning). I keep telling him but he doesn't understand that. Of course, he had this buddy before he knew me so I can understand his position on it. But it doesn't make sense relatives that don't give us equal status as our NM.

    3. Trust me I understand. I feel like my life kept on being destroyed behind the scenes as you took everyone away from me. I would cry lamenting my poverty unable to visit anyone but now I am glad I did not waste money or put my body through long distant travel where she was managing to destroy the relationships anyway. I hope your family does respond positively when yours is gone. I fear mine outliving me because of my very poor health. Supposedly mine had a severe heart condition 25 years ago but I am wondering if she lied about that too because I never have heard of anyone living this long with one. I can see her using health problems for narc supply. Many of my family are totally under her sway, even this aunt defends her, "your mother really loves you" as she contradicts constantly. It is like a dictator loved by the masses or a cult leader. I am seen as the "rebel" and one who won't obey. I do not want my other relatives back, their betrayal was too immense. They followed her every command. I'm on the fence with the few I am in contact with. I know if my brother comes up to my state [and he did this as I was going NC last year] and visits her and not me, I will be finished with him as well. I would tell some of these relatives I have severe health problems and financial preventing travel but none would understand. For years, I did spend the money and time to get to them, but they would still treat me rotten.

      I will ask for the pictures one more time and then if refused will say goodbye. Yes she managed to even take away my father's family, it all blows my mind. They don't even act like I am blood to them, neither side does, and I am still on the adoption quest and have to make some phone calls. It makes me sick she has so much control too, it really does. It floors me. I have realized how all of them see me a certain way. I am wasting my time with these people.

      Yes you will see other narcs as you learn about narcissism. Trust me we got plenty of them now! What does your husband think, does he complain about some behavior of his buddy?

    4. above, should read SHE took everyone away not YOU....

    5. No, but I complain about his behaviour. I'm getting bad feelings about him, his looks, gestures but he threw a fit when I did Lizette's famous robot mode.

      He's told me he's had affairs and cheated on his wife. Why tell me. My husband is not himself after he leaves and I think the man is hypnotizing him to start arguments. So much of that after his buddy leaves, is not himself.

      He gave my husband $5000 to HELP pay for a loader to clean the road of snow (its almost always snowing here) over 10 years ago, his buddy's idea. Now hubby cleans road and driveways for everyone here, his buddy's idea. Everyone pays (except buddy) but not enough to stay in the black. Buddy arranged a meeting with everyone in the autumn to "discuss" paying more. The gas and maintenance of the loader is terrible.

      I don't know. This meeting seems like BS and I'm concerned hubby will be bullied. Paying for the snow removal himself seems easier than facing a room of cheap people. I keep seeing a toe tag on his toe marked CONTROL.

  6. Have you had any times when the veil slipped? I've mentioned a few on this blog where she said Aunt Scapegoat should just go die and when she told me my grandmother was taking too long to die. [a mother she was the GC to by the way] I could smell the sulfur in the freaking room. I am just curious if yours ever had her mask slip. Mine did on occasion. I find the evil in deliberate acts very hard to understand too. I had some Aspie navievete' going but after my stint at my inner city jobs kind of woke up, but sadly I still get surprised by wicked people on rare occasions. The back stabbing and two faced stuff never seems to end. Yeah you think about that waitress destroying people's jobs and livelihoods pretty disgusting. I minimized things too for many years, they are just that way, I told myself I was too emotional and closed down people with no emotions were the "normal ones" though as I got older and more exposed to outside non-narc people that cleared some of that fog away.

    1. I always saw the veil slip. But it could be taken as a joke (not a joke but true). She would always be outrageous in condemning others, it was horrible. Everyone was supposed to laugh and let it go.

      Last time, she told me she loved to see me miserable and upset. That one was unmistakeable, I couldn't interpret it any other way. Then I googled and the rest is history.

    2. Mine never let her mask slip around most. I suppose she thought with me since she knew the family never listened to me, she could show her fangs. Of course when she said my grandmother was taking too long to die, Aunt Denial was sitting there, I recognize her more as a covert narc in her case. Yes when she told you she loved seeing you miserable and upset, she was telling you the truth. She does. I am glad you have found out about narcissism. It opened doors for me when I found out.

    3. Yes I have had times when the veil slipped, the chosen sister and her did not tell me about chosen sisters pregnancy, and then neglected to send me a shower invitation, and other family and friends noticed and started asking them both some very serious questions. Fortunately, the weekend of the baby shower, I found out I was pregnant with my first, and took my cues from them and did not include them in on my pregnancy. The second time MNM slipped she sent me a letter via a lawyer she did not want contact with me, my husband, or children or future children while I was 7 months pregnant which I kept, and whip out for the flying monkeys to see, and make the monkeys be quiet. Now all MNM mother just boo-hoos about how cruel we are to not include her in our lives to other people not in the know about her letter to us. She made some very serious mistakes and left a trail to prove my case. People say I should throw away and forget about the letter, forgive and forget, but they would see that as weakness and take advantage again. Thanks for letting me post here.

    4. I don't feel glad about finding out about narcissism. And I haven't had any doors open up for me yet. Right now I feel like I've just discovered aliens living in our yard and I come into the house to tell my husband. And he can't see them. Oh, and by the way your best buddy is an alien too, see it because I'm telling you.

      He can't see sociopaths because he only sees my mother as a really nasty person, and doesn't know anything else.

      And I can't shut up about it. I don't know how narcs can wear a veil and I can't keep anything to myself.

    5. Discovering the enigma of NPD is like finding out your significant other has had an affair. It explains a lot, but you end up with more questions than it answers. I realize that all the times I confided in my mother about my hopes, dreams and aspirations that she was sitting there snickering under her breath and plotting ways to use my candor to undermine me.

  7. My mother rarely let her guard down. I can count the times she lost it altogether on one hand. But when she did it was a doozy. Just pure seething anger and contempt. What intrigued me about the T.V. show was that if they had never installed camera's and caught her on tape she would have cost these guys their jobs and would have gone on to bankrupt the restaurant. I wonder what we might have seen if my mother had a camera on her? She would arrive at parties or at a BBQ and within an hour couples would be fighting and barely speaking. She bragged to me as an adult how on the one job she had for any length of time she was supposed to train her replacement for when she had to go to court for her murder trial. She laughed about how instead of working and getting her trained they just played around and spent the afternoon gossiping.

    1. Mine showed me her fangs on occasion but in front of the world never made a mistake, and her mask was intact. Yes with the waitress, most of them get away with everything, it is the rare one that is caught, most of these types are cunning beyond belief. I find myself wondering how much of that show is set up because the usual sociopath would be picking up on the camera's and behind the scene actions and playing it cool. I wonder what we would have seen with my mother too. Yours was more histrionic and acting out with her affairs and such. Mine always has kept a mask of perfect respectability on her while doing her dirty deeds. That is sick they had the murderer about to go to trial train the next employee.

  8. Anon I am glad your mother left a trail for you to show the Flying monkeys, ti sounds like she is a less then adept narc, in not taking care of every loose end but it is to your benefit. Sorry you have gone through that.

    1. The thing is no one believed me until that moment, they all thought she was a wonderful person who had gone through all these tradegies (sp) in her life but they were of her own making. She did everything so skillfully the controlling of communications to friends and family members, the triangulation between my sisters and I. I can also recall her never saying a nice word to me when I was living with her, helping her out with money, house and yard work and trying to fix major appliances to save her a few bucks. When it got back to me about how high the grocery bill (via other realtives) I even started buying groceries but she told younger sister not the touch the food because I would get "mad" and start yelling. I guess the letter was to show me how much she thought she was in control but other realtives said you have to stop this is silly and childish (on her part). Other family members even her sister have been victims of her nastiness and say well she is family and crawl back for more. The funny thing is that when things do go wrong, I am the one they come to crying, telling me of her latest misdeed, and I say, you either put up with her in your life or tell her about the mistreatment she had handed to you, stand up to her for goodness sakes, but no one does and things continues on the same track

    2. Yes this happens to too many who have depart from narcissistic families, where no one believes you. The narcs wear masks, and can be perfectly kind, friendly and nice to the flying monkeys while showing you ire and disgust. I relate to the skillful controlling of communication and mine is so good at it, even the ones who have total financial independence and who live far away seem to live in terror of crossing her. That's awful you tried to help her so much, and she still put you down. If they came to complain to me too, I'd tell them make a stand for once too.

  9. "Deep, deep wedges driven deep." Beautiful, poetic alliteration Peep. Your writing on this subject is so exacting and precise, and very familiar to me. As a fellow professing Christian, I ask God everyday for the truth. Everyday. When I read this post and another recent one of your's, it's as if my prayers are divinely answered. How is it that our stories, and others who comment here, are eerily familiar, ringing true. How is that? This phenomenon of how NMom in tandem with NSis can get my whole extended family, friends, hairdresser, ex-boyfriends under their control, how people chose to completely buy their warped reality can only be liken to an actual virus. Today, I struggle with paranoia b/c I've seen firsthand, since childhood, my mother, and later sister, saddle up to friends' mothers, teachers, boyfriends, neighbors, in-laws and see how people one day are normal and nice suddenly become cold and hateful. That, my friend, is the "virus" of subtle slander. My sister acts as "the credible witness" to their mutual take-down agendas. What's even more creepy, in the Twilight Zone category, is when they tell a false reality to my father, a true example, and when I show up at the hospital to visit him as he had terminal cancer, he goes absolutely crazy when he sees me in the hallway. Face red, spit flying out of his mouth, telling me my husband is going to leave me. I had just spent $50 in the gift shop - white daisies and a harp CD in hand - as my mother watched my father in the middle of hospital oncology floor, rip into their daughter, who drove over an hour to see him, by myself since my husband was still working. The truth, my sick, twisted sister stopped by my house, unannounced earlier that morning, and when I came downstairs at 9 am jump to all sorts of conclusions. I was up until 3am doing expense spreadsheets for my husband. My husband answered the door. This is what she does: goes to hospital, tells my dad I walked down at 9am, that we had plans to drive up together, continues to lie and say my husband had a private conversation that he's going to leave me, and it's a gossip fest, making a sick, dying man enraged by twisted lies. That was 2006. The you want to know the husband and I are going on 15 yrs of marriage.....last I heard my sister divorced her second husband, a married man at the time she met him - broke up his marriage and her's to only divorce a few years after this incident with my father. They destroy relationships for ACONS/Scapegoats b/c they are true magicians who play slight of hand tricks for shits and giggles, also to divert the flying monkeys from the reality.

    A tactic to be aware of is when they charm their way into your circles, and over time they are between you and your spouse, friend, boyfriend. They become more credible witness than the ACON who is actually living it. She did this sort of thing to a brother. Said my brother came to her, and confided that his wife stays in one room all day reading books, locking her kids in with her, and he has to cook and clean after working all day. I bought it back then, because why would someone make something like that up? Take it as a warning, when you see anyone trying to portray a confidant relationship with people you love dearly. That's where their web begins and also our isolation.

  10. Check out this new article when you get a chance anon, I go into more detail here.

    Thanks anon on your compliments regarding my writing. I appreciate it greatly. I may share actual poems if I get brave enough. I pray to God for the truth too everyday and am happy to meet another Christian here too. I am glad your prayers were answered.

    I have noticed all the ACON stories were very familiar too. I used to think how could a whole family hate someone where there is no ally? But I have met others. I am sorry you have faced this because I personally know how painful it can be. I have realized I have even lost my father's family, people that live 1200 miles from her. Her smear campaigns are ever reaching in my case. One of the people choosing her over me--- the aunt, she actually was smeared by my NM constantly. How on earth does that work? It sounds like the same thing happened to you. At least in my case, the personal friends are spared since I have lived in towns free of any relatives since the age of 21. I hope no personal friends of yours bought into their lies that would be incredibly painful. I see it as a virus and my mother infected many many places including sets of family friends. I always wondered why I was treated so weird in the town I went to high school in even with strangers. Don't consider yourself paranoid. I have tested the waters before going NC, now even with this aunt and her daughter and now all my worse suspicions are considered true. I went or am going NC with around 20 people. I know that sounds like a scary number. Non-ACONs probably would have a hard time believing me on how this virus of smear campaigns works and how one is put into the place where even seeking to recover relationships [I attempted with the aunt and cousin] is destroyed. You realize they simply won't see you apart from the narc lies. I was remaining calm as she hung up on me and gave me the "my mother can do no wrong". They are loyal to each other but no one was ever loyal to me. The thing that hurts is among the ones who are nice to your face, you learn quickly how you do not matter to them.

    She kept hanging up on me. I didn't know she had it in her. They all seem afraid of crossing the narcissists. So no you are not paranoid. I wanted to be sure with some of the relationships that I was reading them right, and sadly I was especially the ones who put on a nicer face to me.

    I had many people go from nice to cold and hateful including losing one high school friend, because my mother befriended her mother, and the friendship died just like that. My reputation has been destroyed, I agree with you this is like a virus, and I was fighting a losing battle for years and years. My sister too acts

  11. Yes mine uses my sister and others as "credible witnesses". I am sure my aunt will report me for going NC with her to the head NM. I have had the mobbing and ganging up. If I did not have friends, husband--he has his quirks but truly loves me, and kind churches I know these people could have destroyed me. I ponder that. I know God has kept me going. I have to pray. I am planning to go out to some museums and do others things when husband wakes up if it is cool enough and I am not housebound. Oops got 10 minutes then I will wake him up.

    Wow so they turn your sick father against you, oh that is so horrible. :( I bet they were gleefully trying to cause problems between you and your husband too. That is so wrong. I am sure your sister was not abused over her actual divorces as they went nuts and angry over the fantasy of you divorcing. I have realized mine have so many tricks up their sleeves and so many people in use, no matter what I say it doesn't matter. My mother can change someone's mind simply sending them a present.

    I was worried that my NM may try to lie about me to husband. Like making up hideous lies. I think they figured out I and husband are too closely bonded and it wouldn't work. Also we are a couple that spends a lot of time together he works from home and I am housebound a lot so they didn't have a place to make anything up, they probably would if they could. ,I have noticed this hasn't been attempted but it is something I will be careful of. My mother destroyed my brothers marriage. His ex-wife was one of her scapegoats for years. Yes that is something in the narc tool kit. They bond with others in their destruction of scapegoats saying, "I have something to tell you" and taking people into their confidence.

  12. I feel such sorrow in my heart for the pain you express and the things you have experienced peep, and anon, and others. It is a very lonely road, even though I realize I am not alone and there are many acons out there trodding the same hellish path, trying to sort out what makes so little sense. I think you are right. It is all too eerily similar. The common links in this experience of acons, the way the sensitive and the tenderhearted are so mercilessly targeted by the cruel ones, the similarities in the way they operate to have others, namely the truth-tellers ostracized, silenced, it cannot be by accident. It definitely has a spiritual component. It makes me think of the book of Acts 7, where the crowd all ran at Stephen with "one accord" I can relate so much with all you have written, hardly know where to begin. I'm even afraid to post here. I thought that after so many years, it would get easier. Went NC about seven years ago. They do not relent. Instead we are watching the slow and painful decimation of our earthly lives, the lives, friendships, relationships, joy we once had. They even stalk the neighborhood. The maligning and character assassination began long before we even saw it or knew of its existence. It would have been incomprehensible to us just a decade ago what they were doing behind our backs, how they insinuated themselves into our lives and friendships, how they did not wish us well, but rather ill. How they smiled at us, how they pretended. Looking back its hard to believe how blind and clueless we were. It makes me feel ashamed. We could not see it. How could we see it as it was not in our hearts or beings to see it? I used to wonder why they are so deeply suspicious and falsely accusing others of what only they do. Did you walk on eggshells for years too? Isn't it a bit like saying "nice doggy, nice doggy" to a snarling wolf with its beef bone? Maybe that is what the flying monkeys are doing now out of fear, cowing to the wolf. But its still not right.. It is cowardly. Your aunt who won't even give you the simple pictures you requested, that is terrible. It still floors me that whatever the narc said to inflame others against us, no one came to us to ask our side either. It must have been hideous, whatever lie they came up with, but being left to wonder when no one is talking or communicating, (despite numerous reach outs long before NC) its like something out of a Kafka novel. They work in the dark to be more successful in their smear campaigns. They know it causes stress and cognitive dissonance after a long time of being worn down and treated horrifically when you know in your heart you have not done anything to warrant being treated so badly. But scapegoats are sent out into the wilderness to pass away, so then narcs can hide how "mean" they really are. I don't know. I just know God sees the truth of the lives that we live each day throughout our lives. Can we find comfort knowing he knows the truth, that is the question I think about. Is His knowing the truth enough, I ask myself. Is it the approval of man I am seeking when I long to share the truth of our lives, or is it that I want to ease the pain I have seen in furrowed brows of those the narcs have lied to and caused so much needless discord around? Thanks for listening Peep, thank you for sharing your truth and experiences.

    1. Thanks anon, your words are a comfort to me. This is all very painful stuff. I went through more with brother, I may post on later today or tomorrow, where he did not defend me and the manipulations continued. He does see me as "the problem" and sees her as someone to keep happy. They manage to do that where their happiness always comes first. I am tempted to go NC with him but guess in his case since he has told me he loves me and a few other things for now it will be very LC, but he has hurt me very much. I heard about some latest psycho stuff were the NM went after his ex-wife, and they had an argument, even 8 years after my brother's divorce. The sickness never ends.

      Yes this is a very lonely road. I have some close friends but even in the world I am realizing how alone I feel and without a "home". They do go after the ones who have feelings unlike them. They usually pick other narc and sociopaths within the family to be their GCs. It didn't escape my attention my N grandmother chose the most narc/schizoid?/sociopathic grandchild and announced he was her favorite to me. Emotions in narc families earn you derision. Cold cruelty and dominant "strength" is praised. I do believe there is a spiritual component here, a strong one. As a born again Christian, I do see my family as given over to the dark side. Most of the narcs have a total hatred for the gospel. They hate any religious seeking or thought, so even a "seeker" of good will would be despicable to them. Yes you see the crowd all running at Steven with "one accord" that describes it. Perhaps that line about those who become "one mind of the Beast" in Revelation, could be applied to narcissistic families who always bow before and kiss the feet of the most evil one. I am the ONLY one who has ever made a stand or any debate or disagreement with my mother, within my family, this fact stands out to me. Normal people do not go through life having everyone give them such obedience and submission.

      I am sorry you went through your own painful events. I am glad you went NC. Sorry yours have not relented. I find myself hoping with the passage of time they will forget about me. In my case I may just be discarded and it already has started one and half years in. Mine took away my entire family, is working on taking away brother who did not stand up for me and decimated me having any loving family of origin members like a bomb going off. I have lost many things in this earthly life, that the hope of heaven one day is sometimes the only thing that allows me to put one foot in front of another. I hope you do not live in the same town with any narcs. If you can move consider it but I know not everyone is able and doesnt want to rip up other roots. The character asassinations are truly horrible. I wish I knew and understood things far earlier. I know something was wrong. I blamed myself however for so many turning against me but it would take to now to understand how that was done by her so effortlessly. I feel ashamed too. How could I not see it? I knew my mother hated me but I just didn't understand how she was influencing others to do that same. I believe God helped to open my eyes. Also too with more spiritual understanding came out the fact that she WAS EVIL. I was not just imagining it. I remember the slew of enablers telling me things like "Your mother really does love you." If that is love what is hate? Even Aunt "no pictures for you", gave me that line.

    2. continuing

      walked on eggshells for years. I had anxiety disorders I believe were related to my mother. These have massively improved being away. Aspies can suffer from anxiety but surrounded by these sharks what chance did I have? I used to throw up on the way to her house and during family visits. Yes it was like saying Nice Doggy to a snarling wolf. She basically ate me alive and in front of others who think she could do not wrong, and everything I did was wrong it was hell on earth. Watching the world reward her evil while I and my husband have sunk into poverty has been double hell on earth. It has brought me much pain.

      I consider the flying monkeys cowards. I do not think all of them love her who pay homage. They are afraid, they do not want to be the next target, but they are cowards. My brother is chasing after his side of bread that is buttered while still allowing her to fool him somewhat. With the one aunt that is unforgiveable to me. She is controlled by my mother even being on the other side of the family and even living 1000 miles away. Scary isn't it. The latest was my NM telling my brother my aunt and cousin had NO pictures but that is a lie. The aunt even described a few to me. The way she was so easily able to control my aunt was frightening to me. My husband was even unsettled by that one. To us it is evidence of some major secrets they want hid. [the possible adoption?] Normal people do not act this way and then for the cousin to call me with two semi-threatening phone calls, was scary too. Something is going on behind the scenes.

      It does make me wonder what she has said about me. I discovered a few lies for myself. I have always been fully heterosexual and only sexually attracted to men but in my early 20s I discovered my mother, telling family members I was a lesbian and that my best friend and then roommate was my lover. This was just one lie I discovered by accident, I wonder what other lies have been told about me over the years? Whatever they are they have to be beyond horrible. I was disinvited from her granddaughters wedding. What gets me is their own lies, pretending to be nice and wanting contact with me, when all along I was totally hated because of the NM. It is like a Kafka novel. They spread their poison and come out smelling like roses. I am even consider the diabolical treatment I got considering my disabilities. I almost died a few times, and think to myself, these people almost cost me my life with their medical neglect and evil. Perhaps the few times I was seriously ill in the hospital and one of them ever showed up should have been a wake-up call but when I was still in the fog, I believed their excuses. There was always someone else in "more need". She knew how to play that game.

      My brother couldn't even defend me a little bit when it wouldn't have cost him anything. That is what gets me. He is so afraid of her it sickens me.

      They use the stress, illness and cognitive dissonance to their own uses. They will even play martyr and act like they care when the scapegoat finally leaves.

      I believe God does know the truth. One day I believe He will be confronting the narcs with what they did, and they will be paying for it. I consider the narcs in my family to be full blown spiritual reprobates, so you can guess where I consider their final destination to be. Even here there can be pain, I see Christians in nice normal loving families at my churches, I feel like I crawled out of hell itself to get away from these people. God knows the truth and one day will deliver us. I think God supports us talking our truth too. Some false Christians may accuse of us of "gossip" or "tale-bearing" but these are truths being told and what these people actually DID. If anything I think people on multiple levels and in the way this world is now, need to be warned of how evil is operating.