Lise did an article on the poor communication one can have with narcissists.
I thought this article was very interesting:
Misadventures with Angry Alcoholics, Bullies and Narcissists: If people don't want to hear what you have to say, it is normal for you to not want to hear what they have to say either. Comes with a discussion on narcissism
As I have written about the failed relationships with my family, there were no real relationships. One cannot be formed with people who take absolutely no interest in you and who do not care about your thoughts and feelings. You don't matter. There's no real sharing or connection there.
One pattern I noticed with my family is how nervous they got at anything I said, they'd always change the subject or literally ignore what I said. The underlings got so nervous, they'd shut me down too fearing the queen and her higher minions would be displeased. This happened over and over for years and you can see me write about these things on multiple articles.
Five Hundred Pound Peep: I couldn't talk to any of you!
They never told me anything from their end or shared anything meaningful. For some years before I gave up and walked, I went on a campaign to "get to know" my relatives to make things "better" between I and them. That was wasted effort. Some people truly are empty shells where no one is home.
One can try everything calm rational speaking to screaming and cussing to the written word, trust me, they still won't listen. If you are the scapegoat, they don't care what you have to say they have been trained by the head narcissists to discount everything you say. Some ACONS can struggle for years thinking "I will finally get them to listen to me!" "I will write them a tell-off letter!" I know even if mine found this blog, they would simple dismiss it with a wave of their hand. "She's crazy!".
There are fantasies that if you put forth the exactly correct words, like the Bible calls the Word of God as quick, powerful, and sharp, that you can pierce even the worse narcissist's soul. Trust me you can't. They don't care. They won't care. Even if you say the most cutting words on the planet, they simply will turn away as if they did not hear it. I'm actually good at verbal warfare IRL if angry enough. Hey all of us especially with narcissistic mothers were trained to find the weaknesses even if our temperaments didn't want to hurt others. We know what they dive bombed for immediately. Sometimes I have to scale this stuff back. I delivered a few whoppers, room shutting down, going silent, they cut so quick even with my mother, but remember the coward monkey's will lick her boots and she will simply ignore you even if you were right!
With the college friends I walked away from one reason I ended those friendships was a feeling of invisibility. You are a reflecting mirror or someone they slum with. One didn't care about the poverty I faced, another didn't listen either and would actually run roughshod over me ignoring all my problems to tell me hers. I remember one instance where I told her I was getting some scary medical tests, this may have been the time, they thought I had a kidney lesion in my 40s, and she totally ignored everything I was saying. The conversations are one-sided, you feel constantly frustrated and that's a sign something is very wrong.
Lise wrote:
"* Your brain tends to perceive some form of "rejection" from people who do not want to hear what you have to say.
* Emotional distance starts to happen. Unless establishment of "caring about the other's views and feelings" has been established in most other conversations, you will start to distance yourself from that person. In other words, disagreements have to be rarer than agreements, otherwise you will not feel connected or understood.
* If there is a chronic inability to listen to you, people start to distrust others who do not listen to them.
* Respect for the person who will not listen to you begins to fade and can create "a fading away" of the relationship as well.
Lise describes how the relationships will cease here. There is no emotional closeness because one is never listened to. These people didn't care about our views, opinions and more. I noticed even in text messages which were easier to look back on then phone calls, since the print was right there, that I was discounted always. No one cared about my views, even if I agreed with them. One thing I noticed even when it came to views, there was instance sell-outing to keep my mother happy so people would turn their backs on formerly held views to agree with hers. You can't depend on people with no principles! There's no place to form good memories or trust. Respect definitely will be lost. This is a good list.
Some may say going no contact long term is like "erasing yourself" but then we weren't allowed to be present there in the first place. We only cemented what was already true. Don't waste your time. I was talking to walls. They also on their end never talked to me of anything of depth. My mother was a stranger who did nothing but withhold from me.
As life went on, I didn't work so hard on conversations anymore, once people did that shut down crap with me, I would walk away. Why bother? It was useless. Life is short and if you can't get anything out of someone don't bother, they got the door shut against you, and don't knock too long! That's how I am now, just don't bother anymore. Life can change a lot for a an ex-scapegoat who doesn't care about fitting in anymore or seeking "belonging". We still do lose out, we don't have the connections other's enjoy, that were formed over decades but at least we aren't banging our head on that brick wall of narcissistic obstinance anymore.
I went through various "hurts". It hurt me in some organizations, that I was literally silenced such as when I got censored by a disability zoom group I was in. Every ACON knows what this feels like, this silencing and this invisibility. I walked out of that group immediately, shut the computer down and was done. Once people disrespect you, or don't listen and you have stood up for yourself, it's often time to go. Even with "family". I sometimes laugh at these estranged parent websites, they put up posts complaining about ACONS and scapegoats who escaped and claim that the ones who were left want communication. No, one reason we left is no one would listen or would take seriously what we had to say good or bad in many cases.
One part of the onion I deal with is feeling invisible to the world and moving like a ghost in the world. These are feelings of not even seen or acknowledged by anyone. Maybe these are fleas. The narcissists around me competed for constant attention. Today I try to acknowledge others especially the quiet ones in the room now who aren't sucking down attention like an unplugged drain. For me, charisma and charm are now red flags. There's a reason I avoid people like that now. If someone is too popular, that can be a warning sign though a few truly nice people can win over a group.
Over the years, due to my endless bad examples, I had to learn to listen better myself, with autism, theory of mind is very hard. It is hard for me to understand the motives of others. Most lives I don't understand. Mine was so strange I have no points of comparison. A lot about people remain a mystery to me. I have empathy for people but I had to work on my own listening skills and make sure I took their desires, needs and opinions into account. Society went crazy circa 2020 where people all got this idea they shouldn't be friends with anyone who disagrees with them and that made things rough. All the divisions, I realized I didn't want to live in an echo chamber, it was boring. Some find it odd, that I have friends who are Q and conservatives to extreme liberals on Facebook. That's just the way I am. I don't mind some debate. Not everyone has to agree with me on everything for me to friends with them. This is not a direction that is a positive one for society.
One thing you will notice when you are around narcissists is how boring it is. Yes it is boring. BOREDOM is a red flag. They are so utterly and completely dull as a beige wall. I'm a person who loves to explore ideas, which is freaking kryptonite to narcissists.
There's no connection, meeting of the minds or even ability to hash out ideas or test theories. Such things piss them off. They keep everything at the surface level. There are organizations I ended up leaving that kept everything at the surface or silenced people at a certain level. This included some churches I ended up leaving. Even in church a person wants to be "heard" and seen as an individual, and if you are not, why even be there? I have noticed the organizations I remember with fondness from one church to other groups including an art club, are places where I felt seen and heard but also ones where people shared of themselves too instead of keeping masks on and being detached.
Lise sums up the poor communication with narcissists here.
Narcissists do not understand this principle because they rarely listen to others, or they "listen and distort". Everything is filtered according to whether the other person is providing the right kind of narcissistic supply they crave, and whether the other person can be "thought-controlled" by the narcissist.
They also consider their voice, their opinions, and their viewpoint to be the most important in any relationship. - that link says they look at what they have to say as "the law". Once a narcissist thinks they know you, conversations become one-sided (they dominate the conversation). They invalidate - differing opinions and insights are not considered, and they deem them wrong, irrational and disrespectful of them. They maintain rigid, harsh opinions and try to condition you to be quiet or to remain quiet when they are opinionating, making decisions for you or the two of you, deciding how to narrate their dominant position over you. They also condition you to be quiet lest they rage, create a conflict, or dismiss you over your difference of opinion.
Narcissists care most about their self-image. That's one thing I noticed that always came first, and they would adjust narratives or shut down conversations that did not enhance their image. They also love to dumb things down. If there are smart people in the room, that alone will anger narcissists and "controllers".
A lot of them spend time bragging or humble bragging and they often turn things into a competition. They will distort. Some of the narcissists were so extreme, that I was around, you never got a turn to talk. Now autistics can suck at group conversation, we interrupt, can't get the timing thing right, but ever try to talk to a person where you can't get a sentence in edge wise or they change the subject every time you open your mouth? That was my brother as one example. Once I had hadn't seen him in 5 years or so, and we were on this visit and while he talked about his life, he took no interest in mine. I never could get a word in edgewise. One time in frustration I simply walked away. I was bored too.
My mother had the ability to charm groups, she was always the one heading the office parties bringing in fancy foods. My brother had that ability for charm too, he never was lonely or lacking for friends, his house or apartment was always the local hang-out. While some mocked him and weren't always respectful this is not someone who ever went without a circle of people around him. Sometimes I get troubled, why do people gather around narcissists like this? What makes them so popular? All the love bombing for their favorites? Some of these human dynamics are just gross. I've seen it in too many groups. The charming narcissists ruling by degrading others and kissing the asses of a few minions who help serve as enforcers to the status quo.
They always have to be the ones who shine the brightest in the room. Many soak up attention like a sponge. I've seen this in groups where one or two people do all the talking and the rest go into silence, it happens way too often for my liking. One always has an opinion, and because they dominate yours are left in the dust. I tend to be quiet in groups to the point I believe most people find me "boring". It's probably from a life time surrounded by narcissists. There's a few times I've gotten boisterous usually from being angered and it always shocks people. They don't expect the quiet ones to speak up usually. I kind of hate meetings. I like my art club and other groups I've been in, but I've been to too many bad ones where the narcissists hold court, and my God, most of them love to hear themselves talk!
One gets used to being quiet and the others always hogging the center stage. Human power and dynamics always fascinated me as a observer. Sometimes I just watch and observe. Maybe that weirded some people out but remember my body here, a lot of us disabled are put on the sidelines. A lot of the world does run by "status seeking". This drove me nuts, I used to think why can't we have real communication, thoughts and connection? I often found it frustrating. Narcissists you will see are not interested in any of that. They love the status games.
It's true they see their opinions, and outlooks the most important. "My word is law", and they often take over entire rooms, and families too. Sometimes you can see dynamics where everyone will run to please the narcissists. It happens too much. This is why we get the worse leaders. Power and control are seen as the highest goods. They do invalidate others and the most talented ones can steer a group into accepting invalidation of anyone who disagrees with them [or exposes them]. They do dominate and use anger, threats, facial expressions, and out and out lies. For them winning is everything and gaining control. It's not about connection. That's why you are wasting your time to try and reconcile or have a meeting of the minds with a narcissist, it's never going to happen! You are never going to wake one up. They don't want to wake up, they like things the way they are. They don't see you, they only see themselves!
These are people with no empathy, and they don't want knowledge or understanding, this is why they shut anyone down seeking either of those things. They want to control the narrative and direct others. In a narcissistic dominant society, there's not going to be much focus on truth, it simply won't exist. Everything will be about manipulation. The rest of the article is really good and goes into how they do thought control, control the narrative, and distort communication.
This can help everyone detect a narcissist in their midst, notice their conversation, what are they talking about? Do they seek control and guiding the narrative? Do they silence others? Do you feel like you never got to say a word after talking to one? These are all warning signs. If you feel like crap trying to communicate with a narcissist, it's not you, it's them!
