Wrestling with God
Too many people have been painted a picture of God that looks more like a jealous boyfriend in a drunken rage than the peaceful, inclusive Rabi who said “if you’re tired and burnt out, come hang with me- because my way is light and not burdensome”.
As a result, our concept of God internalizes into all sorts of other broken thinking, and leads us to see everything bad that happens in life as being a divine punishment from God.
Over time, we actually start to believe that God hates us. The concept gets rooted so deep, that even when we mentally reject it, our “emotional memory” still uses it as a go-to hermeneutic for understanding life events.
I’ve been in relationships before where I couldn’t do anything right and was chronically reminded of my own shortcomings. Unfortunately, these situations don’t often cause us to become better- instead, we eventually start to believe that we’re just as bad as other people think we are.
I can’t have this kind of relationship with God anymore.
I hope that you can’t either.
Let’s repent together, and stop thinking that God hates us.
Cause honestly, I don’t need anymore enemies (you should see my in-box).
I need friends.
Some of this is left over from dealing with Mrs. Curses. Spiritual abuse like narcissistic abuse can have it's effects too. I have been fighting with God a lot. Some would call it wrestling with God. Others would call it constant arguments. Like this guy above, I can't have this kind of relationship with God anymore either.
I left the IFB as I have mentioned before and a lot of things are changing for me. Seeing God as just another "person" I got to toe the line for or else, wore me the hell out. Unconditional love is a hard thing for ACONs to grasp a hold of since we never had it.
I guess that's my best way to explain it. I'm done with legalistic churches trying to dictate endless "rules" but I know like many other abused people I struggle with a vision of God being like my abusive parents.
Like this guy above mentions, there is a lot of time, I feel like God hates me. Some of my health problems are so extreme and the poverty unrelenting and some of the rest, there's days I have just shaken my head. I went around crying to close Christian friends that maybe God hated me like Esau and maybe I should just give it up but they assured me this was not true. My husband during some of these days, asked me if I was becoming an "atheist" again, I said, "No I do not want to become an atheist again, I believe Christianity is true." He cracked some jokes, I didn't find so funny, saying "Let's take God into the parking lot and kick his butt!" I'm not sure if he was trying to give me a deeper message here: ie God is in control don't be absurd here Peep, or just trying to make me laugh while I was shaking my fists at the heavens.
I realize my relationship with God was seen as a person who could not do anything right. Ie, the whole relationship was built on endless rules and regulations, yes I believe relationship with God was the most important but this idea, that I was "not good" enough for God was in me too. I'm not sure how this will all spiritually pan out yet but it is a process.
Update on this one: I deconverted in 2017 and no longer believe in Christianity or the Christian concept of God. Let's be blunt, one sided relationships where you never hear back from the other party are destined for failure.
Dear Peep, Please know that we really are in the end times. And if you truly love God, the times are very difficult, as least they are for me. Evil is ever present and right before me. But the Lord said, He would prepare a table for me in the presence of my enemies and that's what it feels like daily. He also said, pick-up your cross and follow Me. To understand His sacrifice and suffering , we as believers will experience this. How else could we possibly understand His ultimate sacrifice & the cross? There is a price to pay and it it not easy. Matt7:14, The gate is narrow and few find it. Jesus does stick closer than a brother when abandon by family and this world. Your blog is so raw & real , no fluff, beautifully written and I truly appreciate you. Honestly, I didn't want to come here anymore with the Trump mocking. For me, the end times are not about Democrats & Republicans, but seeking the will of God & I have seen it ALL just returning from living on the continent of globalization. As I have mentioned before,I no longer attend church because most churches have been infiltrated by Satan (religious narcs & a twisted Gospel) have aligned with 501c non-profit status and the Clergy Response Team. This is a time when one's faith will be attacked and the great falling away will occur...hold on tight, the Lord loves you dearly...If I can help in anyway with health issues, I would be more than happy to...as I have been thru endocrine hell myself. If this post, is too raw, please feel free not to post. Bless You Peep, Kittiestravel
ReplyDeleteI agree we in the end times, it is true the times are difficult for those who love God. You are right the Bible warns of the tribulation or "evil" we have to contend with. A lot teach falsely that to be a "good Christian" will mean a easier life. I heard this even in the last church where they said if you obey God, you will be blessed [in this world] that's some false theology right there. Thanks for your kind words about my blog. Sorry we disagree about Trump remember how I view both parties. I would be interested in what you saw on the "continent of globalization". I am not a Democrat either, it gets complicated explaining that IRL to people trust me since I am protesting Trump, as a wicked man. I did put up a verse about rich men oppressing the poor in one later protest poster. I know the right vs. left fights can have their own problems that is for sure.
DeleteI no longer attend church either, I go to book clubs, charity community dinners and occasional bible studies etc, but no church attendance. There's too much I disagree with like you, with the "clergy", "tithing", "family-focus" and errors of the Nicolatians. There's nice people I appreciate who attend them of course. I have been under faith attack, no doubt of that. I suppose it is something a Christian should prepare for. There were times I felt like I was being slowly crushed like something in a morter and pestle. Sorry for your endocrine hell. Thanks for your encouragement Kittiestravel. :)
I am doing better now, wanted to say that. I am "working things out" with God. I am thinking about some heavy issues regarding God and how false messages and enabling of narcissism and evil in the churches [and society too], some stuff Smakintosh warns about too impacted some of this.
DeleteI seem to think of God as someone who gives me impossible tasks and enjoys watching me squirm. Such a terrible thing to say, I know, but that is always my first thought. Now, I have to reach my doctor's office for my disability papers were not done right, and I need to make sure they get done right. Just a couple of changes, according to the disability office. But I have to be the one to make this come about. I find this hard. Feels like I am in a bind.
ReplyDeleteBut I know God doesn't cause this. In fact, he remembers that we are only dust, and asks that I lean on him. Just like I'm tired, exhausted, and have to lean on something entirely or I don't make it. So many Christians have a remarkable testimony, a deliverance, but for me, just entirely leaning is the best part. Its a good place to be. So I just say that if it all screws up, my eyeballs, and my leaning will be on God. Like a sanctuary.
He's not enjoying watching me squirm, I know that, but its never my first thought.
I see God the same way, looking down at me, "oh you didn't do that or this". Even thinking of good works expected of Christians, [I don't believe in works based gospel of course] and think I've failed on that one. I was telling a friend last night the poverty drives me crazy because I can't "Do" much for anyone, well maybe making one person happy will help. It's not a terrible thing to say, SO MANY OF US FEEL IT. During fights with God, this issue came up, I said "YOUR EXPECTATIONS ARE TOO HIGH". Yes it's funny but I told God that.
DeleteLOL I hope I do not argue myself into hell. I am not pious or your typical Christian. Sorry you have to worry about disability papers, I hate business details. We have to do taxes Saturday and by Wed I have to deal with some numbers. Sometimes it boggles my mind how me without a job always has paperwork. I'm trying to get two paintings done, including butterfly one I plan to sell. Hope you can get your paperwork done okay.
Yeah God didn't set up the paperwork or rest. I am glad you feel you can lean on God. THAT MEANS A LOT. With me that got a bit touchy, I felt like He let me down. There was one day I was crying over the car not starting a second time [the recent second oops third break down] and said, "Please just start it. I know I have to get away from God as fairy godmother/father as delivered to me in fundamentalist churches. :( He doesn't care about you getting a parking space when that other person is dying of stage 4 cancer. LOL Hope I don't offend writing that. I know I have leaned on God before in life, but right now kind of distant from Him spending last few months in constant arguments. I'm not getting a "divorce" but the communication has been fraught with trouble. Things are somewhat better now. I used to have a great testimony when I got saved, I used to reel people in with it, which is why today's troubles are a bit "embarrassing?" I think your being able to lean on God though is everything. I know I am trying to unravel the "God hates you" knot at this time and working through the feelings of betrayal of Him letting narcs win, this frustrating body and other unanswered prayers. I suppose faith will go through massive tests in a course of a lifetime.
Hi Peep, I'm glad to hear you are feeling better:). Yes, Smakintosh has a potent and powerful calling, deep and straight from the Word of God regarding the wicked. And also the difference between a sinful person who will repent and the "choosing evil" reprobate mind (malignant narc). One can think of the physical church as the world now. No longer a place of comfort and mercy, In addition, religious narcs are the worst. As far as the globalization of the EU, the US is not receiving all the daily attacks of rape, murder, and knifings that are occurring. The EU is no longer safe and one is on their own with gun control policies in place. Europe has not seen this type of violence since the WW11. This is open borders and the "free for all" policies of Merkel....a complete disaster. In addition, the presense of "No Go" zones which the police can not even enter are growing.TheGatestoneInstitute,gatestoneinstitute.orghas documented the EU migrant crisis.
ReplyDeleteThanks. I agree about Smakintosh, he has a few new videos up by the way. Yes there is a big difference between typical sinners and the given over to evil types. Agree about the churches, the narcs have taken over, they enable the evil. I have read some alternative news, for some reason the world powers, decided to let Europe basically have an "invasion", small countries having 1 million immigrants added is not nice immigration anymore but some kind of plan to bring unrest to a nation, I've read some on the horrible rapes in Sweden and elsewhere. Merkel has betrayed her own country. I can't stand trump but some of his followers were right about immigration getting out of control here, it definitely is THERE.
DeleteYes, it is an invasion & Europe is going to hell in a handbasket quickly. Interestingly enough, most of the invaders are not grateful for asylum either. Tragically, children are being raped in swimming pools and elderly woman 70, 80 , & 90 are being raped by the teenage invaders.Very sad & disgusting. Sweden wanted to be a multi-culti nation starting in the mid-70's and that's why they are in such severe condition today. Hungary, Poland, Slovenia, & the Czech Republic have said "No" to this type of immigration & openly speaks against George Soros' plan of globilization... to break down borders & eventually nationalities in the EU.
DeleteI believe immigration is used as a weapon to suppress wages. For some reason the elite seem hellbent on creating chaos in Europe. Ever notice that western nations are told they have to take everyone in like others like Japan and others can defend their culture and no one judges them for it. I am glad some nations have held out against it. I understand where some immigrants just want to survive, I have empathy for that but the immigration is being used as a tool. I do not know if part of the reason the Middle East is emptying out is the heating of the world in that area, or not. I remember hearing Iran and Syria heated up to 140 degrees, and don't know if this is part of the mass migration. I do not believe all cultures are compatible. Of course endless Middle Eastern wars have created people fleeing too. It sickens me that Trump for all his anti-globalization talk still wants to increase the amount of money for war [billions more for the war machine, while cutting the poor and disabled down to nothing]
DeleteHi Peep, yes, there were real refugees fleeing for their lives in Syria & then there is the economic refugee, "come to Germany for a better life we will give you a house & car." Too bad the EU didnt screen properly. I agree this is definitely an agenda to break the back of the EU & why not schedule the "invasion" at the same time real asylum seekers are fleeing. Since I have been out of the US, I have not heard about cutting poor & disability benefits. Where are you reading or hearing this? I have heard about Pres. T wanting to rebuild the military since the US would not be able to defend itself presently. Obama scaled our military force to a very weaken state. And many miltary units are residing in foreign lands and not on US soil.
DeleteI agree the endless migrations and immigration are being used as a set up to break the back of the EU. The Republicans via Paul Ryan want to cut social security by 20 percent and cut Medicare and Medicaid, they wanted to do this with block grants. It was actually stuff snuck into the last health care bill that failed last week. Block grants to states would have meant telling a Medicaid recipient in the hospital, no money left for you. The disability community ADAPT ect even protested at the Congress building and Ryan had them all arrested. Us disabled people have felt some real fear and threat from Republicans. It goes beyond the rescinding of Obamacare, I think Obambcare should be rescinded for single payer. Telling people no insurance for you go die in the gutter is no solution. The for profit insurance companies need taken out of the equation.
DeleteTrump ran on telling us that he would stop the USA police man of the world nonsense and I do not see that happening. We have been bankrupted as a nation waging war for the globalists. Be careful of those saying our military has been scaled back, I have seen no evidence for that. We have bases in something like 118 countries.
Hi Peep,thanks for this info. I will look into ADAPT. The US insurance system is on steroids, unbelieveably inflated compared to the EU. Reasonably med. prices, premiums, office visits, & treatments. I don't even want to deal with this until I get a new employer. Frankly, I can't afford it now.
DeleteHey Peep, I just want to add too...it's seems to me with the darkness increasing that I'm seeing people who I didnt realize were "dormant narcs" becoming full-blown narcs." Anyone noticing this? It's so bizarre. Also, the married businessman narc who I recently mentioned, had the nerve to contact me again and ask if I was attending a convention and he would like to caught-up??? Now here comes the no response & NO CONTACT. Pisses me off & I hate being hunted by this wicked entity. Trying to play it cool because it's the business world and you don't want to burn bridges. Well, let bridges burn...I'm sick of this! James4:7
ReplyDeleteKitties travel, I have noticed this too, I do think some trip over, you even see people who were far kinder young who go cold and mean. I have noticed it. That said I know I have to watch my own irritability and fleas. Ugh with the married business man. Yeah just ignore him. Some of my past enemies have popped up too, like that ex narc friend. Yeah in business I know you got to play it cool don't hand him anything to use.
DeletePeep, thanks so much for your input. What perturbs me, is I now realized that I was subtley "groomed" by this manipulator. This whole scenerio started with an invitation to interview at the narc's small Company( when I was in the overseas). I thought it was a weird situation since he was divorced and still working with his x-wife who is the company co-owner. I didn't want to be in the middle of those two.( I was just starting to learn about narcs back then) She is definitely a narc, snooty & told me" she gets bored easily" He is remarried & a covert quiet mumbling narc. Thank God, I did NOT say yes...I knew something was off. Narc & his flying monkey sales manager loosely stayed in touch with me emailing job opportunities or bringing over free samples at my convention booth (grooming) Another time, I liked his company on social media & he said'let's caught up...I just thought it of it as a friendly biz relationship & had a call with him. The narc antics started very subtley with him writing in an email, "too bad you don't live closer" & commenting, I'm going to be in your area, maybe we could meet for dinner.So like your x-narc friend, he pops up again & is trying to manipulate me with, do you have any tips for this medical condition (my work is health- related). As I mentioned , I wrote back with a website & I'm not available for a conversation. This was only to try & get me to engage. The last attempt was sending a note on Skype, "have you read this book(another one) , are you at the convention now? It would be great to caught up. He must think I'm a dumb blonde not to put the pieces together- convention, hotel & hotel rooms...I closed my Skype, blocking his & flying monkey's email & no contact on LI. What a pile of dung... Proverbs1:17
Deleteso glad you did not take a job with this guy, you escaped a giant bullet there. I think he is trying to groom you too and set you up. Like he is interested in a relationship. Weird I read an article that narcs like to keep their exes close. Sounds like this guy still working with the ex wife, maybe she couldn't get totally free of his woven narc web. So glad you went NC!
DeleteThank you, Peep. I find the whole scenerio very disturbing. God protected me,(thank you,Lord) even though I did not have a solid understanding of Cluster B at the time. And despite the fact, I did have visa pressure & needed a job contract to stay in this country. I believe the whole thing was planned from the very beginning. As we know, this is what calculating evil covert narcs do. Cunning & subtle, as Dr. Hare says, even experts sometimes miss the signs. I applied, he looked at my photo & profile on LI & was very complimentary of my resume, " Your CV looks like the Who's Who of "such & such" industry.(uhm, not really IMHO). I also think he is trying to lure me into an affair or compromising situation (pure evil). The first LI msg. mid-Jan. was to get the conversation going, prepping to meet me at the Mar. convention. The 2nd msg. via Skype ( Skype contact was left over from his co. interview.) So it's not like I can say to LI, I'm being stalk by this man. Since Skype was bought by MS,it takes 60 days to close the account. But it is now on "lock down" & I can't access it. I think narc & his x-narc wife were a "narc power couple" Eventually, the "fight for power & control" causes them to split/divorce. Yes, keeping exes close for narc supply or sex again. If I look at my parents and aunt & uncle definitely narc power couples. Except my father & uncle are malignant narcs. As soon as I have received my next job offer, I will be extracting all my biz contacts and getting bloody off LI. It's too CREEPY having stalkers know where you work. And what about the past narc boss/employer who can pick-up the phone, call your new employer & smear you?
DeleteHi Peep,
ReplyDeleteThank you for writing about this topic. I, too, confess with my mouth and believe in my heart that Jesus Christ is Lord. My faith has has been bold as a torch and as little as a ember over the years. Sometimes God feels a million miles away so I know intimately what you are referring to here.
This thought came to me today and I wanted to share this with you. We are all familiar with the verse - What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?
This verse is heavy, especially in our reality-obsessed, "how many likes and followers I have" empty culture. That aside, I think this verse can also be applied to our family narcissists as well. Right now, we may appear to have lost. The N has won. They don't/can't truly love anyone but our loved ones love her as we once blindly did as well, to our own peril.
She has their love and goodwill, we do not. She is never alone, we often are (PTSD). Her phone rings off the hook, our phone never rings. She's amassed more supply and her social calendar is always booked, our's is empty. She has a voice, we don't. She gets validation, we don't. She is comforted, we're not. You get the idea.
Think about the rich man and the beggar allegory. The rich man was comforted on earth and tormented in eternal life, and the beggar was comforted in the eternal life and ignored and unloved in the earthly life. From the eternal perspective, which one would you rather have? Same with gaining the whole world and losing your soul. Just replace gaining the whole world with gaining the whole family (especially when done through deceit and not truthfulness and transparency), and it gives us a more eternal perspective to our earthly pain and struggle.
My argument to God is always why can't you open their eyes? Why can't one relative come forward and validate the smear campaigns, the years of isolation, the fake reality I lived in from birth until 38 (think Coraline's other mother/world),? No answer. Never an answer.
I like to think that God knows that maybe I can't handle the truth right now, that it would cause me more damage than the incessant apathy and silence. Not one relative called me to get my side of the story. It's like they all sided with my mother/sister, who are absolute pathological N's. They all believe whatever version my mother/sister said, of course, without seeking what I might have to say. I think that, in itself, is very telling as to the mob, group-think, toxic family I hale from.
Thank you anon for your kind words and admitting your faith goes from a bold torch to an ember. It helps hearing this, so I do not feel like the only one. This is something NEVER addressed in churches, at least the kind I went to. Those who admit any faith failings are condemned.
DeleteThat is a good verse and you NAILED IT, and my problem. I feel like the NARCS have won. My NM and sister and others, the narcissists are wealthy, they are well loved--my family revolves around my mother, they have status. Remember here, I have the severe poverty pressing down, the ability to live a "proper" life pressed down. I have mountains of laundry in here I probably can't afford to wash until April, though we are doing small amounts for me to get by. Inside her shrill voice can still ring in my head.."not good enough" if I let it. I have realized how intense the abuse over the poverty was even as an adult. I have prayed to God why can't that end so I do not remain a worm. Yes I have had thoughts in my head, "WHY DO THEY GET TO WIN, AND WHERE IS MY JUSTICE IN THIS WORLD" when fighting it out with God. I am glad you said this so direct, yes that is the main problem.
Yes my mother has their goodwill, she is never alone, she is never broke, she gets to travel and enjoy life and eat out. LOL yes we are often alone or having to go to charity meals at churches, yes we are just like you, our phone only rings for my husband's work and very few friends who mostly live far away. Yes the Ns have validation, a voice. My NM is seen as SOMEONE in society while I am seen as NOONE. My life of disability, and realizing how sick I've been too for 20 years is hard. What could I have beedn? That is mixed in too. SO YES I RELATE< thank you for pointing this out. They have the world.
I try to remind myself, I enjoy life more, then she does, LOL I do my art, I went to library today and got a biography on Queen Victoria and printed out tax documents for husband--well that part isn't that fun and I took the bus, but yeah, inside one's head, you see the status of these narcs, and how they are validated and treated as important people while for many of us scapegoats we are on the peripheral of life.
continuing
DeleteYes I remember the rich man and beggar allegories. Lazurus at the gate, I got saved on that verse and shown it the day when I prayed should I go no contact, and feeling I was told "God will take care of you", I wrote above how the bills crushing us, wore me out and was part of the wrestling. The Bible says some will have their reward in this world. LOL I wrote someone today on Facebook, I am glad I never sold out, they don't know the depths of meaning I meant there. It is true this eternal perspective helps. I am trying to talk to myself now, I did so on the bus and while waiting, you can't go through life thinking you are nobody because of this person, I am trying to overcome some "fear" of people which makes one too insular. Low self esteem can be a trap that makes you too self focused etc.
Its true, we are in the spiritual place do we gain the whole world or lose our soul? I believe many in my family lost their souls long ago. It is a good thing we have not. Yes your words help me and I definitely will think on them. I have been dealing with this struggle, it is probably a mid-life one, even though I know intellectually "Look you have been sick for 20 years, you almost died in your 20s, and dealt with a lot others never have" inside you feel this regret upon not becoming "somebody". Oh I don't mean famous and that kind of trash but I know my NM definitely put a worm in my head about how winning this world is "everything". It truly was everything to her, and one can see it. Only this world mattered.
I've had those arguments with God too why don't you open your eyes. I got one cousin to admit my mother could be dangerous to me. Even that took some effort, but I fear the influence on the outside where they have all told him, I am too emotional, she is too crazy etc etc, Most though refuse validation, they have sided with my mother/sister too. They believe everything she tells them. The group think takes over. The sad thing too to face is that out in the world, what matters sadly in this wicked world is what matter most to narcissists. Sure there are people of conscience and others like us, but to be "good" in this type of world or strive for higher ideals can bring some major punishments. I'd rather end up in heaven too. THANK YOU FOR YOUR POST :)