Mr. and Mrs. Peep Talk About 10 Years of the Five Hundred Pound Peep Blog and Life

• 500 POUND PEEP INTERVIEW (6/14/20)
  
  500 POUND PEEP (FHPP): All right, Mr. Peep...

  
  

  MR. PEEP (MP): Yes?

  
  

  FHPP: How do you feel about Budge's 500 Hundred Peep blog, that she started 10 years ago? She was both trying to find out why she was so fat, and why she never lost weight, and she was also trying to figure out her life.

  
  

  She started her blog, after we had moved here, and after you had lost, had your job layoffs, and I know it was kind of like a psychological help tool – but what did you think of the last 10 years of 500 Hundred Pound Peep? Then I'm going to get into the no contact question.

  
  

  MP: All right. Well, it definitely did start out, mostly about the Five Hundred Pound Peep, but it's been interesting to watch it broaden from beyond that, even. So I'd say, the first half of that era is very much about what you just said, psychological self-discovery, or self-examination...

  
  

  FHPP: Figuring out the weight issues.
  
  MP: And, to a certain degree, self-affirmation, too, because it wasn't like the outside world was necessarily providing you with that.

  
  

  FHPP: Yeah, that's true. Especially with size acceptance being so limited.

  
  

  MP: Well...

  
  

  FHPP: Of course, I questioned aspects of size acceptance at the start, but –

  
  

  MP: But remember, even all that stuff we went into, back in Chicago, it was for a certain group of people, and they had tons of money, and they were always on the edge of the earth, all these events.

  
  

  FHPP: Yeah, I remember. That was one thing I always thought about size acceptance in Chicago. They seemed – OK, it was very Boomer dominated. That's one thing I didn't think about at the time. It was very wealthy, Boomer dominated. In fact, I don't even think NAAFA's still alive at all, in the same way. And I would even concede that they failed, not selling themselves to the new generations, or being real about our economics.
  
  Because, if you think about it, here's one fact. Most super-sized or even mid-sized people are not, today, able to get the jobs that people in the past were. I'm not even talking, just even disabled overweight people, like me, who are in the highest stratospheres, but I'm talking mid-sized.

  
  

  Right now, maybe 30 years ago, someone could get a decent job if they got up, went there, did their work. But now, it goes, you have to fit with the health insurance. If they see you being too expensive, they'll get rid of you. You went through that with your job in 2007, since they laid you off, the very week I went on the insurance.

  
  

  MP: Yeah.

  
  

  FHPP: So that was some of the stuff I saw. But no, I didn't relate to everything, and I thought it was a very, kind of a classist, kind of shallow (group), because everything was about dating, and they never talked about anything with life.

  
  

  MP: Yeah. Well, I always used to groan, when these things came up, because I thought, “Well, there goes a Saturday,” because, remember, I was –

  
  

  FHPP: Yeah. I remember that.

  
  

  MP: I'd think – well, especially, it was more difficult, I think, when I started working again regularly. Because I'd think, “Well, it'll take us all day to get there, it'll take us all day to get back, and I'll only have one day to cram everything in.”

  
  

  FHPP: I was always scared, because everything was so far away. And then, when we did have a car, we had no hope to going to any of that stuff. And getting rides with people was miserable, and it was just too much to ask, and there was no bus or trains that ever went anywhere they met. It was all these very wealthy suburban people. And I mean, in that way, it was kind of disappointing to me. I expected to find maybe more support, and not have it be so limited.

  
  

  FHPP: Oh, yeah. I remember, even my job was way far out, too, in the suburbs. So, yeah.

  
  

  MP: So your eight-hour day is really a 10-hour day, basically, because of all the time that you spend, shelling out to get back and forth.

  
  

  FHPP: Yeah. All right. One thing I wanted to ask about, okay –

  
  

  MP: Well, let me wrap up this thought. Then we'll get to your next point.

  
  

  FHPP: All right.

  
  

  MP: But, anyway, it's interesting to see, once you moved beyond that (initial focus), some of the other things that you got into – your various commentaries on the issues of the day, or even the artwork that you got into showing, and even then, the extended writing that you started doing. So it's all been very interesting. I've learned aspects that I don't think I would have learned otherwise, had you not actually done that.

  
  

  FHPP: Okay. All right. How do you think Five Hundred Pound Peep affected Peep being able to get diagnosed, and stay alive? You think the blog had anything to do with it?

  
  

  MP: I think it definitely helped, because people, of course, will always chime in: “Well, did you think about this, have you thought about that? Have you looked into this, have you looked into that?”

  
  

  FHPP: Yeah. Yeah, that definitely came up. Because, actually, when I was doing research on the blog, I found the picture about Lipedema. And I remember, I was in the nursing care, and they were talking about having me go to Mayo, because they knew something else was wrong.

  
  

  I remember when the head nurse came to me, and said, “We really want you to think about going to Mayo, because we watch you, we see you as you eat, we know something else is wrong.”

  
  

  And that's when I found that one illustration about Lipedema. And then, I had never heard of it, or maybe I read about it, and it kind of flew over my head years ago, when I was trying to research what was wrong. And I remember showing it to them, and that's where the explorations began, and the discussions with the doctors, and seeking out a lymph therapist. So I was able to get officially diagnosed later.

  
  

  MP: Yeah, what you did sort of reminds me, in a weird way, of what I read about (Sun Records founder) Sam Phillips doing later in life, when I read that bio.

  
  

  FHPP: Yeah?

  
  

  MP: He actually – remember, this was the pre-Internet era, so he would go to the library and get the medical papers about this condition he had, or that.

  
  

  FHPP: Yeah.

  
  

  MP: He did the research, and he would research other people's conditions that way.

  
  

  FHPP: I've done that, too. I've actually gotten people diagnosed before (laughs). I've read about so many weird medical conditions, where it's like information in my head. Does that make sense?

  
  

  MP: Yeah, I have a feeling you and Sam would probably have hit it off beautifully, on the research aspect.

  
  

  FHPP: Probably, yeah (laughs). All right, a very component of Peep's blog, that began around 2013, was when Peep decided to go contact with toxic and narcissistic relatives. She would end up, in 2017, basically going no contact with the whole family, though some cousins had ended up taking a little bit longer, but now, she ended up walking from all.

  
  

  How did you view Peep during this process, and do you think that it helped Peep in going no contact? And also, what were your own thoughts about her family, and what happened there, and how they appeared to you?

  
  

  MP: Wow, this is... Gee, I mean, we might be here all day, if we had to make a statement.
  

  FHPP: I know (laughs). Do your best.

  
  

  MP: I know. Well, I guess, on the first aspect of it, you seemed to be a lot more relaxed, once that took place.

  
  

  FHPP: Yeah.

  
  

  MP: I mean, towards the end of all these little visits we made, it began to feel more like a chore, than something you looked forward to. And I'd think, “Well, if all I'm really interested in is getting the latest magazines, I can certainly order them by mail, if that's really what I want to do.”

  
  

  FHPP: Yeah.

  
  

  MP: That's not enough. I mean, that particular city, there's not really a lot to look at, or do, honestly.

  
  

  FHPP: No, it was kind of a dead place. Even this little town's got a lot more. I remember, we'd go there, and she wouldn't say a word to me to the whole time. It'd get weird. She was cooking a meal for me, and giving me dirty looks. It just got too much. That got too much, too.

  
  

  MP: But even the experience of going to some of these places [bookstore in mother's town]– they started taking out the chairs, and places you could sit down. I'd think, “OK, I get it. You just want my money, and you want me to fuck off. Well, you know what? Maybe I will do just that.”

  
  

  FHPP: What do you mean, when we went to some of their gatherings?
  

  MP: No, when you went to the actual places – like the bookstore. Remember? They started taking all that away.

  
  

  FHPP: Oh yeah, I remember that, yeah.

  
  

  MP: It's like, “OK, you just want my money? All right, fine. I won't show up, then, because you're not making me feel welcome.”

  
  

  FHPP: Yeah.

  
  

  MP: So the store was very much an extension of the (Peep's family's) house, I thought. It was a metaphor for how they treated you.

  
  

  FHPP: What was your experience of Five Hundred Pound Peep's family? Do you think they were toxic people?

  
  

  MP: I thought they were strange, and unusual, but not necessarily in a good way.

  
  

  FHPP: Yeah. I think so, too.

  
  

  MP: Because the one thing, I think, I noticed about – well, two things, actually, about most of them. When they did talk, they mostly talked about themselves and their own pursuits. They never showed much interest in other people, really.

  
  

  FHPP: Yeah, that's true.

  
  

  MP: And, of course, they always thought they were experts, on this, that and the other, even if it was pretty clear to me that they really weren't. And that was basically – I mean, I even thought the way they treated each other was strange, honestly.

  
  

  FHPP: In what way?

  
  

  MP: Well, they didn't always seem to get along with each other, that was one thing.

  
  

  FHPP: I know. I had enough of the abuses, and stuff, but, yeah. And what did you notice in that, that they were always fighting?

  
  

  MP: It reminded me a lot of what they would say about the crime families: “This one falls in with this one, this one falls out with that one.”

  
  

  FHPP: Yeah, it was like that, exactly. It was like being in a mob family (laughs). It was like that.

  
  

  MP: That was one of the strangest parts of all of it, to me. Or maybe not. Well, it wasn't strange to them, but I'd be thinking, “Well, how far are we going to take this, exactly? And where are you going to see yourself ending up, at the end of the day?”

  
  

  FHPP: Yeah, that's true.

  
  

  MP: All right. So what was the other part of what you were asking?

  
  

  FHPP: What's that?

  
  

  MP: Well, what did I notice, and how it affected you, and I think you asked a third one.

  
  

  FHPP: Yeah. I asked, what did you think of Peep going no contact, and how it's played out?

  
  

  MP: Well, at the time, it seemed like some scorched earth, extreme sort of scorched earth step to take. But now, it would appear, maybe not so much.

  
  

  FHPP: Yeah.

  
  

  MP: Because I notice, now that Peep's a little more relaxed, and a little more centered, I guess, if that's the term we can use here.

  
  

  FHPP: Yeah.

  
  

  MP: And you don't spend all your time worrying about, “Well, what are they gonna do? What are they gonna think? How are they gonna react?”

  
  

  FHPP: Yeah, I remember all that (laughs).

  
  

  MP: Because, I would add, it's the same –

  
  

  FHPP: You don't realize this, but I always had to be on the ball, and vigilant, because they were so crazy, and abusive, that even when I was in contact, I had to be on my toes, so crazier stuff didn't happen, you know.

  
  

  MP: Because it, funnily enough, it's the same thing with toxic work environments, too. You go there thinking, “What are they gonna do to me today? How bad is this gonna be?”
  

  FHPP: Yeah, it was exactly like that.

  
  

  MP: Or, if you wanted to try to be a Positive Pete, you'd say, “How am I gonna get through the day without an incident?”

  
  

  FHPP: Yeah, Positive Pete (laughs).

  
  

  MP: But yeah. “How am I gonna get through, without getting scorched by them? How am I gonna make it unscathed?”

  
  

  FHPP: Yeah.

  
  

  MP: Although, that's not a very noble goal, if you think about it: “Dear Lord, please let me get through the day without some kind of useless drama.”

  
  

  FHPP: Yeah, and think about it. We only, usually, on average, went to go see them, two to four times a year. [Low-Contact]They never came (in) our direction.

  
  

  MP: No.

  
  

  FHPP: No. I was expected to call once a month, and all that.

  
  

  MP: Well, that was another thing that I got tired of. When gas prices shot back up, it was much more difficult, I remember.

  
  

  FHPP: Yeah, that was one thing, too. Them being all wealthy, they didn't know that for us to dig up 80 bucks, to go on one of these trips – that could mean no groceries for that week.

  
  

  MP: Yeah. So that became an irritant to me, at the end. I'd be thinking, “Well, you can do this yourself. You can come this way once in a great while.” Because felt, “I'm tired of putting my hands in my pockets, every single time” –

  
  

  FHPP: Yeah, that's true.

  
  

  MP: To make it work. No, I don't miss any of that. Well, and as for the magazines, I like the old ones, better, anyway.

  
  

  FHPP: Yeah, that's true (laughs).

  
  

  MP: I haven't seen that many new ones that have impressed me, to be really honest, so...

  
  

  FHPP: All right, one last question. What do you think of Peep's recent writings? Like, I wrote on Coronavirus, and what's happening there...

  
  

  MP: Well, let's see – well, you've written some stuff about religion, of course. There's that aspect.

  
  

  FHPP: Yeah, oh, yeah. What did you think of Peep's deconversion (from Christianity)?

  
  

  MP: Well, it didn't bother me, because –

  
  

  FHPP: Well, you never believed that way, so, it was like –

  
  

  MP: No, but I mean, I never said, when you did go that way (to born again Christianity), I never said, you shouldn't do it.

  
  

  FHPP: Yeah. Well, we were both married in the UU (Unitarian Universalist church), so I'm glad we're both back in the UU.

  
  

  MP: But I wasn't going to tell anybody what to do. I don't want anybody telling me what to do.

  
  

  FHPP: I'm glad I never did try to tell you what to do, either. I think, when you see a married couple split up over religion, they're trying to tell each other what to do.

  
  

  MP: Yeah. Well, but the way that that works best, I think, is everybody has their spheres of influence.

  
  

  FHPP: Yeah.

  
  

  MP: Because I don't believe in the absolute dominance model, like Fred Mertz bawling at his wife, for instance, on I Love Lucy. I don't believe in that. And I don't believe in total laissez-faire, either.

  
  

  FHPP: How do you think Peep's changed since the deconversion?

  
  

  MP: I would say, well, let's see – well, you're exploring a lot more things that probably would have been deemed to be off limits (as a Christian).

  
  

  FHPP: Yeah.

  
  MP: I've seen you sort of that doing a bit. And, of course –

  
  

  FHPP: Well, before Coronavirus hit, life had gotten more enjoyable, especially music-wise.

  
  

  MP: Well, exactly. Think of the dilemma, I think, that Christian kids must go through, because they know – let's say they were living in a really restrictive household, where Mom and Dad said, “Well, you can only listen to Christian rock, or Christian hip-hop, or whatever.”

  
  

  FHPP: Yeah.

  
  

  MP: And then, they see what their classmates are listening to, and that stuff seems a hell of a lot more exciting and relevant, you know?

  
  

  FHPP: I know. Well, you know, I kind of cheated on the music thing, all the time (laughs).

  
  

  MP: Yeah.

  
  

  FHPP: I was always listening to this stuff. And then, I was told, “Oh, it's all the Devil's music,” and it was messed up. I'm glad to have left all that behind.

  
  

  MP: But there are a lot of people, I think, in Christian households, who probably have to walk that tightrope.

  
  

  FHPP: Yeah, it's too much control. How did you think she got drawn into that, Peep got drawn into that? I know I'm talking about myself in the third person – how do you think she got drawn into that?

  
  

  MP: Well, it coincided when you got sick. That was a big part of it, I think.

  
  

  FHPP: Yeah. I talked about on there a little bit, that I thought it was trauma induced.

  
  

  MP: Well, usually, people –

  
  

  FHPP: And I was told, if you turned to God – you know, you think about having all that stuff we went through, with the poverty, and the illness, and stuff – I guess I thought it'd make life better, or I thought I was doing something wrong.

  
  

  MP: People are rarely going to do it when things are running well. It's usually when things are looking a little questionable, that people are more likely to be more receptive to that idea.

  
  

  FHPP: Yeah, I agree. They do prey on people, who have health problems or money problems, or they don't feel like they have control of their life. And it's kind of like, they sell a product to you, even though you might not necessarily pay them any money.

  
  

  It's like, “If you do this and that, your life will come together.” Or, at least it'll have, “Your sufferings will have purpose, or some kind of meaning to them, and it'll be brought into order.” And it's just, all false. It's falsehoods.

  
  

  MP: Well, this is the central idea of the Resurrection, that often gets overlooked. Because the implication is, “If you buy into this, it's not only about Jesus overcoming death, and rising again, you're gonna get to do this with him.”

  
  

  FHPP: Yeah.

  
  

  MP: So there's the idea of, your redemption is tied to his redemption.

  
  

  FHPP: Yeah. Yeah, I would say, that's true.

  
  

  MP: So I think that's a central tenet, for sure.

  
  

  FHPP: Well, I mean, that's probably what makes it appealing to people. All right, let's sum up. What do you think of Peep's latest articles?

  
  

  Let me try and think – I did, “They destroyed the world with Coronavirus.” I know, I'm so paranoid (laughs). I haven't been writing about them (Peep's family members) much – there's been more cultural stuff, I would say, lately.

  
  

  MP: I would say, it just shows, Peep's doing a lot of listening and reading, and engaging with the world. Peep still wants to do that, even if Peep's behind four walls, so that part of Peep didn't really change.

  
  

  FHPP: All right, that's a good summation. Just leave it at that. My voice is getting tired from talking.

  
  

  MP: Yeah. Oh, great – now, I've got a lot of fucking work to do, now, I've got to transcribe all this! (MP, FHPP both laugh loudly at this point.) But that's all right. It's work I don't mind doing, if you do it for yourself.